Thread: Ernesto Solingen = Heljestrand?

gentlemen,

i stumbled over this razor on ebay (ebay-pictures). i only found out that there was a vendor of all kind of solingen steel, ernst kalkuhl, who used the brand "Ernesto". i pulled the trigger as the blade might be fine and as it reminds me very much of a heljestrand MK 30 or MK 31. also note the three crowns.

so, my question is: do you know if heljestrand sold blanks to or produced razors for other companies?

thank you for your help,
hans

Sure looks like a Helje blade. Could it be that Ernst ran a cutlery shop in Solingen and just got other actual makers to make up razors with his brand on them?

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Sure looks like a Helje blade. Could it be that Ernst ran a cutlery shop in Solingen and just got other actual makers to make up razors with his brand on them?

Bob

maybe. or he got semi-blanks, with "No 30" stamped on it and added a "0" plus his brand on the opposite side of the tang. i own a heljestrand with the size of a 31 that has no stamps at all. this indicates that there have been unstamped blades. but for what reason? i have no idea...

hans

Originally Posted by brightred

maybe. or he got semi-blanks, with "No 30" stamped on it and added a "0" plus his brand on the opposite side of the tang. i own a heljestrand with the size of a 31 that has no stamps at all. this indicates that there have been unstamped blades. but for what reason? i have no idea...

hans

It sure looks a MK 30 or 31. The box also looks the same Heljestrand used, but with different text (even the golden frame of the label seems the same). I note some differences only in the shape of the far extremity of the tang, the striations of the thumb notch are less numerous (13-15) in all my 5 MK31s (haven't a 30 yet) and this Ernesto specimen seems to have crispier lines on the tang, specially at the shoulder, but these features are given to a blank by grinding.

I'll be haunted by this doubt, and I'll hear a voice in my head for some time asking "Why in the hell a Solingen manufacturer would be outsourcing blanks from Sweden???"

Originally Posted by Matheus

It sure looks a MK 30 or 31. The box also looks the same Heljestrand used, but with different text (even the golden frame of the label seems the same). I note some differences only in the shape of the far extremity of the tang, the striations of the thumb notch are less numerous (13-15) in all my 5 MK31s (haven't a 30 yet) and this Ernesto specimen seems to have crispier lines on the tang, specially at the shoulder, but these features are given to a blank by grinding.

I'll be haunted by this doubt, and I'll hear a voice in my head for some time asking "Why in the hell a Solingen manufacturer would be outsourcing blanks from Sweden???"

the razor is not in my hands yet, so it is a bit difficult to compare it to a "real" mk 30. but you are right, my mk 30 has about 15 striations only, whereas this one has much more. i even have the impression that a "0" was added to the "30" later, but i might be wrong. i will post more pictures when the razor is here.

and yes, this is a mystery to me, too: why blanks from sweden? i doubt they had ever been short on blanks in solingen...

hans

Originally Posted by brightred

maybe. or he got semi-blanks, with "No 30" stamped on it and added a "0" plus his brand on the opposite side of the tang. i own a heljestrand with the size of a 31 that has no stamps at all. this indicates that there have been unstamped blades. but for what reason? i have no idea...

hans

I think i have one that does not have a stamp. I tried to look up any information on him but came up with nothing. Strafers doesn't even have anything on him & he usually has some information on many different straight razors. Perhaps martin, ScienceGuy or Zak might chime in on it. I wish I had some books on other makers other than Sheffield & my Goins Encyclopedia. I have a few other books but I have pretty much come up empty handed. My Guide to Razors just says Ernesto, Germany & my Straight Razor Collecting has Ernesto, G in it.
Very interesting since it has the crowns on it like a C.V. Heljestrand MK. I do have a C.V. Heljestrand that has a BK with the crowns instead of a MK with the crowns.

I remember seeing the three crowns on Japanese razors as well, like the M. G. pictured below. It does indeed look like a copy of an M.K. Heljestrand.

Lets not forget that the 3 crowns is a Swedish National emblem. That said its possible that the emblem was stamped on razors because they were made from Swedish steel? many Japanese razors are in fact made of this high quality carbon steel.

Furthermore, came across some knifes marked with the "Ernesto Solingen", apparently from a knife forum, these knife were made in Solingen for the Ernesto Beltrame cutlery co of Italy.The company was founded in 1820 and is based in Maniago, Italy.

Im not sold on that possibility but its possible.

Originally Posted by Matheus

I'll be haunted by this doubt, and I'll hear a voice in my head for some time asking "Why in the hell a Solingen manufacturer would be outsourcing blanks from Sweden???"

Why not? Swedish steel and steel working industry have always been held in high regard; I assume the Swedish razor industry must have had at least a decent reputation. I have to admit, I have cannot recall ever having seen a razors like this, but then again have never delved that deep into Swedish razor exports to Germany. But I have seen razors come out of Sweden not marked with a manufacturer's stamp, with markings along the lines of "Sweden Razor", obviously aimed at a foreign market.

By the way, these blanks were not exclusively used by C.V. Heljestrand. I have seen AB Borlänge Bengall razors, as well as Jernbolaget razors with identical geometry (full hollow grind, the same type of thumb notch, etc.). This seems to be tied in with the common misconception that Heljestrand razors were somehow superior to other Eskilstuna razor manufacture. They were not. They were/are just much more common, as they seem to have had a considerable European market share (as far as Swedish razors go). It is likely that the C.V. Heljestrand operation being owned by the Kindals of Paris had something to do with that.

You are right Pieter, Swedish steel products always beared a great reputation, but seems to me more logical for the people in business at Solingen to import the Swedish steel and stamping blanks locally. Thinking backwards... Makes more sense for the Suedes to sell products with aggregated value, instead selling steel as commoditie.
I also noted Heljestrand-like blades from some Swedish producers, mainly Jernbolaget and SSA.
The shoulderless type seems (e.g. both Klas Tornbloms in the picture) to be specially ubiquitous among almost every Swedish razor makers.

Originally Posted by Martin103

Furthermore, came across some knifes marked with the "Ernesto Solingen", apparently from a knife forum, these knife were made in Solingen for the Ernesto Beltrame cutlery co of Italy.The company was founded in 1820 and is based in Maniago, Italy.

Im not sold on that possibility but its possible.

I don't know, you might be on to something there. I think most Solingen makers used the last/surname of the company founders on their razors. I don't believe Ernesto is a German family/surname and the German equivalent first/given of Ernesto is Ernst/Ernust Behind the Name: Meaning, origin and history of the name Ernest .

Bob