Thread: One Of These Things Is Not Like The Other

Originally Posted by MattCB

I fond myself drawn more to "unique" or "interesting" pieces more than a certain width or grind. Things that catch my eye are nice spine work, scales, or blade profiles. Give it a few years, things will change again.

To collect, use or both...and do you find they shave equally well?

Okay. First principles.

There is a completely unassailable difference between any two razors when one isn't honed well.

There is a completely unassailable difference between any two razors when one hasn't been stropped well, but things like grind, type of steel, quality of honing, how coarse the beard that it last shaved was, and how many times it's been used without stropping can all influence what 'stropped well' means.

After that, we get down to stuff like blade geometry, steel quality, type of grind, etc.

For me, personally? The difference in how my face responds to the razor from shave to shave is usually greater than those influences, but it's really hard to be sure because of those first two principles.

Did I really hone it right? Sometimes I get too lazy and I don't notice that the edges don't meet because it's good on one side but not the other. Did I slack on the stropping? Maybe!

After all that, with many shaves, my Heljestrands feel qualitatively different to all the Old Sheffield razors I have. As do my Le Coultre razors. But I've had early 20th century Wade & Butcher full hollows that shaved just the same.

My suspicion is simply that it takes less work to get blades that hollow to be that sharp, so they seem to take a better edge.

And then we get to the even bigger problem of intersubjectivity.

What is your best shaver might be uncomfortable for me. I've done enough honing and razor sales + swaps to know that 'the right edge' varies a good deal from person to person. I personally seem to be a bit pickier about how sharp it is than many folks, but not as picky as others.

For me it all comes back to the basic fact that the subjective experience of shaving varies from shave to shave without regard to the razor.

I've gotten, what are for me, perfect shaves with razors of every style and reasonable age (back to 1780), with 9/8 wedges and 4/8 hollows, with crucible steel, excellent modern steel, Bessemer steel, stainless steel.

I've gotten uncomfortable shaves with all the same (though I've only got one stainless steel razor, and it's never really given me any problems).

Short version

It's not possible to separate a meaningful difference in razors from the people using them.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

It's not possible to separate a meaningful difference in razors from the people using them.

Ok, but what about the other way around?

Originally Posted by WW243

Ok, but what about the other way around?

It probably is possible to figure out some meaningful differences between people using them!

My hair is really springy rather than stiff, and that means it's a lot easier for an edge to pull and be uncomfortable.

I think the people I've come across who are pickier than me have thicker hair that is also springy.

So there's the type of hair as a big factor (assuming the mythical platonic razor ideal).

But on top of that, different people clearly have very different tolerances for discomfort, and that tolerance is changed by a lot of things: caffeine, alcohol, sun exposure, time of day, blood pressure, season, how recent and extreme their exposure to Capsaicin, state of immune system, function of lymphatic glands, altitude, what they're thinking about, barometric pressure, endogenous sex hormone levels, injuries, temperature, etc.

Cutting (hehe) through all that, there are 6 razors that consistently shave super great for me:

Heljestrand MK 31, WWI-era (paper-thin hollow, 5/8)
John Shepherd WOLF, 1780's (thick wedge, 1700's style 'no-tang', 7/8 at the widest)
Trud Vacha, post WWII-era Soviet-made stainless (quarter hollow, 6/8, heavy scales)
Fred Fenney 'Tally Ho', 1830's (late regrind, paper-thin hollow, 6/8)
Stodart I & O, 1824 (heavy wedge, experimental iridium-osmium steel alloy. 5/8)
John Hives, 1810ish (slender wedge, 5/8 at widest)

Not really a helpful list!

I think about the differences (variants would be a better word) between razors when I buy them, maintain them, and think about them. But once I've chosen one for the morning shave and have the edge at my sideburn, they are all the same to me. I've never thought 'I wish I had my Grelot in hand right now...'. I do compare the result to other shaves with other razors, but in the moment, I really don't think about what is in my hand, unless it isn't shave-ready of course. For me, size, grind, maker, scale material, whathaveyou, are important reasons to buy and own a given razor. And can have a influence on the final result. But during the actual process of shaving, for myself, only the very edge, the lather, and my concentration bring anything of value to the party.

I've used hollow and extra hollow grinds all my life. Razors from 3/8 all the way to 7/8. I prefer 5/8 and up, round point or square point, makes no difference. My beard is coarse with a lot of tough white whiskers growing on skin as tough as Custer's saddle. I never did try a wedge, frame back, or a big smile.

Variety is the spice of life. Different strokes for different folks. It can't be measured or calculated. For me its the edge that is the bottom line. Now can certain razors have a better edge then others. Yes I think so. I have my favorites that change from time to time. Its a personal thing and that is what makes it fun.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Cutting (hehe) through all that, there are 6 razors that consistently shave super great for me:

Heljestrand MK 31, WWI-era (paper-thin hollow, 5/8)
John Shepherd WOLF, 1780's (thick wedge, 1700's style 'no-tang', 7/8 at the widest)
Trud Vacha, post WWII-era Soviet-made stainless (quarter hollow, 6/8, heavy scales)
Fred Fenney 'Tally Ho', 1830's (late regrind, paper-thin hollow, 6/8)
Stodart I & O, 1824 (heavy wedge, experimental iridium-osmium steel alloy. 5/8)
John Hives, 1810ish (slender wedge, 5/8 at widest)

Not really a helpful list!

So, are those razors always in your rotation, all or in part?

(I for one have a devil of a time getting a close shave when my stool is scant and pasty).

Originally Posted by WW243

So, are those razors always in your rotation, all or in part?
(I for one have a devilish of a time getting a close shave when my stool is scant and pasty).

Hahahaha.

My rotation!

They're the ones I go to when I don't feel like messing around with it, or when I just want to be certain I'm going to get a good shave.

But my rotation is typically something along the lines of:

10 print "Well, this is the most recent one to come in the mail, I'll hone it and see how it shaves."
20 goto 10

Every now and then I think "I should shave with that particular one, because ________".

And personally, I can't get a good shave on one of those really rugged stools.

Originally Posted by WW243

So, are those razors always in your rotation, all or in part?

(I for one have a devil of a time getting a close shave when my stool is scant and pasty).

A little to much information there.