Thread: Micro holes on modern production razor?

Hello gents, I have three modern razors that I have honed up to 12k and examined with my led 60X loop and noticed holes some shallow and some deep throughout the blades bevel. I am OCD about wiping the razor down in between each pass, when done shaving I strop on nylon to clean the edge, oil and store in a dry location. I don't have any water spots nor rust throughout the whole razor. So how could the bevel develop holes in the steel without rust like devils spit? What might be some other possibilities? I don't know anything about steel production but could there have been bubbles/air pockets develop while hardening?

Also they don't produce their own steel.

I will not mention the manufacturer because they are working with me I am just looking for additional possibilities while we figure this out.

Thank you

Never heard of that, if you could post pix of the edge under magnification it would be helpful.

I tried sorry, to the naked eye it looks like debris from a suede strop

Without naming names.. are these artisan razors or something from Dovo, TI, Whacker, etc...?

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

Without naming names.. are these artisan razors or something from Dovo, TI, Whacker, etc...?

Negative, they are a artisans. I have three other razors of theirs and have zero issues, just great shaves. Plus they have since changed the thickness of the steel and shape of the blade.

Ummm. We might need to know that though, Tc
Personally I already know.

O-1 material has been used by many to make some beautiful razors and knives. However some artisan makers may not understand the heat treat and quenching problems that come with using O-1. You can study this from a Crucible handbook or study it online at crucible.com. although the problems you mention are common when O-1 is improperly heat treated and not quenched properly. I am not saying this is what happened, but with over 18 years as a machinist and tool&die maker it is not the first time I have seen or heard of these problems. Hope this may help a little.

Originally Posted by Ron187524

O-1 material has been used by many to make some beautiful razors and knives. However some artisan makers may not understand the heat treat and quenching problems that come with using O-1. You can study this from a Crucible handbook or study it online at crucible.com. although the problems you mention are common when O-1 is improperly heat treated and not quenched properly. I am not saying this is what happened, but with over 18 years as a machinist and tool&die maker it is not the first time I have seen or heard of these problems. Hope this may help a little.

Thank you! What you said is what I was thinking in theory!

To my eye, you may have run into some microscopic inclusions that leave pores behind when they are dragged away from the steel by the stones. In my time grinding steel bars, there are several pieces of steel I remember, that have proven to be a poorly mixed solution with inclusions and undissolved mystery steel globs that are not homogenous from the mill. It all appeared to be fine and normal as a flat surface ground bar, until a process change showed the difference. The spec sheet said it was what I bought, but occasionally there are acceptable deviations, at least to the steel manufacturer. They can always sell you another bar of steel.

It could be microscopic porosity, but for either problem, why do these only appear along the bevel and are not seen elsewhere on the ground surfaces of the hollows? This is not a laminated blade and there should be an even distribution of such flaws, not simply limited to the very center of the bar and only showing up along the bevel. An additional strange feature is that these pores seem to miss the working edge too.

I would call them flaws, but of the non-fatal type (referencing a Japanese way of judging a blade's potential, i.e. they do not cross the edge and compromise it as a tool) and fully capable of being used normally. You will always know these pores are there. Shave, hone, shave, hone and continue observing what happens to them. If they are small they will disappear (others might appear). If they are larger edges of bigger flaws they will open up and be more visible. You still have a working razor that will tell its story over time. It's not something I'd toss in the junk box. I'd tell the maker and share this information with them. If it was an O-1 razor with my name on it, I would want to know.

I don't know that the heat treatment is the problem. This is not to say that it couldn't be. Perhaps (cautiously perhaps) not enough material was removed after heat treating, perhaps there is some decarb'd steel. My experience, for normal O-1, in my time heat treating steels, is that it is not a tricky or delicate steel and is quite predictable with few surprises, except those that no one could anticipate. I don't know enough about the heat history of the blade in the hands of the maker to be sure of any possibility in this variable.

It would be really good to know what the maker did to this bar of steel from beginning to end.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

To my eye, you may have run into some microscopic inclusions that leave pores behind when they are dragged away from the steel by the stones. In my time grinding steel bars, there are several pieces of steel I remember, that have proven to be a poorly mixed solution with inclusions and undissolved mystery steel globs that are not homogenous from the mill. It all appeared to be fine and normal as a flat surface ground bar, until a process change showed the difference. The spec sheet said it was what I bought, but occasionally there are acceptable deviations, at least to the steel manufacturer. They can always sell you another bar of steel.

It could be microscopic porosity, but for either problem, why do these only appear along the bevel and are not seen elsewhere on the ground surfaces of the hollows? This is not a laminated blade and there should be an even distribution of such flaws, not simply limited to the very center of the bar and only showing up along the bevel. An additional strange feature is that these pores seem to miss the working edge too.

I would call them flaws, but of the non-fatal type (referencing a Japanese way of judging a blade's potential, i.e. they do not cross the edge and compromise it as a tool) and fully capable of being used normally. You will always know these pores are there. Shave, hone, shave, hone and continue observing what happens to them. If they are small they will disappear (others might appear). If they are larger edges of bigger flaws they will open up and be more visible. You still have a working razor that will tell its story over time. It's not something I'd toss in the junk box. I'd tell the maker and share this information with them. If it was an O-1 razor with my name on it, I would want to know.

I don't know that the heat treatment is the problem. This is not to say that it couldn't be. Perhaps (cautiously perhaps) not enough material was removed after heat treating, perhaps there is some decarb'd steel. My experience, for normal O-1, in my time heat treating steels, is that it is not a tricky or delicate steel and is quite predictable with few surprises, except those that no one could anticipate. I don't know enough about the heat history of the blade in the hands of the maker to be sure of any possibility in this variable.

It would be really good to know what the maker did to this bar of steel from beginning to end.

Thank you for this very clarifying post! These all came from the same bar, 1 razor is by far worse than the other 2. I have received great shaves from these razors. Just knowing there are these holes bothers me way more than than the function of the razors. The makers have already worked with me over the issue. I am glad I posted this so I can understand what is possibly going on with the steel again thank you all