BIG DOG CUTLERY has their stuff made in China.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirm
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BIG DOG CUTLERY has their stuff made in China.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirm
As you said, the service they're using masks their information, including name, email, address, and phone number. You can't base any information off their domain registration. Domain privacy is pretty standard for normal use. I have it on my personal site, SRP uses it, and millions of other legitimate sites do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by aalbina
It might be someone looking to cash in on an established name but I doubt it's for malicious email scamming. Pretty elaborate steps taken already to target a niche market.
I'm familiar with the practice. For any established company, it is generally not done. Small companies and private entities often entertain such a practice. Certainly not a red flag on it's own. A simple phony DMCA complaint to the provider will likely yield the hidden information. I've had to do that to uncover domain technical contacts and GoDaddy will send you the info pretty quick. Other privacy companies sometimes require an actual subpoena. I assure you, there is no way to truly hide this type of information on the Internet. Domain history can be traced back to the first registration. There is no such thing as privacy on the Internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
A registration address out of Panama (the WHOISGUARD Address) for a company historically based in the UK is odd. There is already an entry in NOMINET, the official UK registry:
Domain name:
wadeandbutcher.uk
Registrant:
Alan Ezekiel
Registrant type:
Unknown
Registrant's address:
277 Boston Road
Hanwell
London
W7 2AT
United Kingdom
A phone number for the registrant for the .com address that is listed as land line in Slayton, Minnesota is odd. Which prompted my closing statement - this seems odd.
Given what I have seen in this industry - the minimal amount of effort required to set this up for an niche target audience who spends hundreds of dollars on straight razors... I have to respectfully disagree that it is pretty elaborate. I could have accomplished everything this site accomplished with about 15 minutes of effort and a maximum of $75.00.
It seems odd. We'll have to wait and see I suppose.
Adam
Agreed. Many sites I have visited the blades are 300 plus. Noted some at over a $1000. What puzzles me is who would pay a grand for a straight razor (people with money they don't know what to do with it!) I have been using a straight razor for 20 plus years and everyone has come from an antique store where I paid as little as $5 for the blade and $40 for the most expensive. Yes it takes work to prep the blade to get ready for a shave. My first one I honed on diamond blocks. When I finished up with the fine block I strop ped it and had to go back to work--talk about pull and drag and scrape, Ouch. I have invested into Japanese waters tones, five of them, I purchased some time later Arkansas stones--six of them. I picked up some funny stones from antique dealers for straight razors. One was smoother than the Arkansas translucent polish stone, the other was some where near a medium grit. I have other gadgets, but Arkansas stones seem to be the ones I stay with. I like the Japanese, but it takes too much time to prep them to use.
Not attempting to be nosey, but what is the most you have paid for a blade--if you don't mind? As I said all my razors come from antique dealers and have never bought a brand new one outright.
Would you please explain how/why the Japanese hones take too much time to prep?
Hi Guys,
I came across this thread and thought I should join in and just mention a few things. Firstly, this is my venture.
Secondly, I really thought I was giving myself some time with that coming soon page - but I think it rather pertinent now to just (hopefully) ease some of the concerns and give you guys some info for the time being. What I wanted to do and what I still will do (closer to launch), is put up a proper announcement thread where I can convey the whole story and the vision I have for Wade & Butcher, with an outline of where I want to go and what I want to do - so perhaps stick around for that closer to launch..
For now though, let me get down all the important points, so as to be upfront/transparent/clear:
I'm Mike :) My claims to fame such as they are:
Owner/Operator of Zulu Grey;
Designer by profession (I run my own design agency);
Wet Shaver and dedicated straight razor nut (like you) for the last 10 odd years;
oh and I designed the SRP Logo :)
Some Background:
I have a deep love for the Wade & Butcher brand, and I wanted to pair my love for the brand with my passion to create custom razors and start my own company – and so I set about investigating the possibilities of ‘reviving’ the Wade & Butcher brand. This led me to discover that indeed the actual company, well both companies (the parent W & S Butcher Ltd, and the primary US brand Wade&Butcher, which was incorporated into it's own Sheffield company in 1921) were in fact still ‘alive’ albeit dormant. The current owner, Charles at Durham Duplex in Sheffield (and Chairman of the Made In Sheffield brand), had privately bought out both companies from the family business for his own keeping, to one day 'do something with them', as he told to me.
So, I made contact and many discussions later over the last two years we settled on an agreement/partnership whereby I will bring the brand back to market through my own vision and at my own quality standards. Charles had attempted to investigate the possibility of bringing the brand back to market himself through mass production, but ultimately he agreed that that wasn't the best course for the brand.
To be clear, this will be legitimate Wade & Butcher in the year 2017, by that I mean it is from the original company that was sold to Durham Duplex in 1920 and that has been maintained and kept as a viable company in Sheffield for 95 years, and with it all the associated brand marks, names, razor designs etc. Others may be using the name, casually using versions of the symbols, it may even be registered in the US by another company.. but only the actual original Sheffield company, passed from hand to hand as it has done, can bear the name and the marks rightfully, on any newly created shaving cutlery. And so that is what I have secured. I want to properly and meticulously bring the brand back to market, but it must be done with great care and respect for the heritage of the brand and of course all the provenance must be intact.
So, what do we plan to make then? Well, this will not be mass-manufacture/production, not one bit. Historical W&B did that, it served the time and it made sense then, but as a modern heritage company my sights are set on turning Wade & Butcher into a more boutique, upper-tier brand. It will be custom, handcrafted - dare I say 'luxury' straight razors of truly impeccable quality. In many ways this is a labour of love for me personally, and it really will not be about volume. We'll be crafting new designed razors, as well as bringing back some classic 'heritage' models (with updated materials and small touches). It will be myself and potentially 2 other artisans here in South Africa, with a complete emphasis on small-batch, high-quality.
Our razors will be truly pristine, my aspiration is to far exceed the quality, the fit, the finish - that historical Wade & Butcher ever achieved, ever could achieve. Handcrafting individual razors with the best tools and materials of our day affords us this ability. There will be nothing cheaply or casually done - from the steel selection, to the packaging it will be done properly.
As I say, I just wanted to mention a little bit and get the conversation straight, but in time I will update our social media accounts and the mailing list with new info and more details on everything. Talk is good, but I do wholeheartedly understand that many of you will believe it when you see it - and my intention is to pleasantly surprise you.
Cheers,
- Mike
It may simply the stones I have. Instructions say to put them in water and let them soak up all the water they can before you use them. I have five grits, one is a fat 50,000 grit. That's the best I can tell you and it is what the instructions say for the stones to stay in good condition. I once kept them all submerged until scum begin to build up so I took them out, dried them and put them away until I need them. It's that I don't like them, it is more that I am lazy. What is your position on stones. I am in need of getting a decent strop which I am sure will be of a great benefit. Could you suggest a strop, length and width. I made strops from an old combine bailer belt. It is 5 inches in width and I cut them down to 12 inches and used stropping past on them, but haven't felt good about using them. Wondering if you might suggest something to do with them to make board strops with them. Guess I will have to clean them of and sand them down a bit. Anything you might have in mind that would be helpful would be great. I intend to buy some stropping past to use with my dermal to polish up some of my blades. I think I mentioned all the razors I have come from antique shops.
P.S. Have you ever used lapping film. I have. BestSharpeningStones.com carries 3M Lapping paper, I just bought 5 additional sheets, 1200, 8000 and 15,000 grade. I have used them on my blades to begin with, and it comes in very handy for taking down scratches of glasses lenses', Have done it and wow, how the scratches disappear. I am sure there are other uses for it. Check the site out and look and the microscope pictures of a razor done with Lapping film.
Thank you for the information, however, I am certain the price will be far out of my range. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I get my straight razors from antique dealers and have never paid more than $40 for a razor. Even $100 would be pushing it for me as there would be words between my wife and I should I ever dare spend $300 for a razor. I started using a straight razor 20 plus some years ago because I did not like the price the safety razors were going. I currently run eight razors when I shave, and it is a long time between stropping. You see, I grew a beard when I got out of the Viet Nam Era Conflict and have had it since, except that it is more full than before. I started with a Vandyke then when to a full beard. I was lazy about shaving. So, when I shave it is a cautious tale and sometimes is a two handed affair. My grandfather on my mothers side used a straight razor, and I think that is why I bought my first one and tried, Wow, talk about pull, drag and scrape. Well as time passed I finally learned how to sharpen one and have been going since.. I must admit though I have had some nasty cuts from those blades. Again thanks for the information.
Thanks for posting some extra information Michael.
I look forward to updates as they become available.
Big fan of my Zulu I received from you a year or so back. Hope to use one of your matching WBs on it sometime next year as well.
Good luck with your endeavor sir.
:tu
Mike - great to know. I stand corrected - I see my suspicions were wrong that this was a scam. I'm pleased to have been wrong! Best of luck with this and I look forward to seeing how it goes.
Adam
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelC
From what I understand from the Made in Sheffield brand that Charles Turner chairs is that one of the conditions that must be met to carry the word "Made in Sheffield" is that:Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelC
"The company must be located in the 'S' (Sheffield) postcode area (broadly consistent with the historical county of Hallamshire) and consistent with the Sheffield City Region."
How will the three of you do this from South Africa? Are you going to actually use artisans in Sheffield - that would be cool!
Adam
No no, I just noted Charles was Chair of that org out of interest to the community here. Very specifically our razors will not carry the 'Made in Sheffield' mark, as indeed they will be fully handcrafted in SA from Swedish Steels.
I would like to down the road, by adhering to the stipulations of the MIS certificate and with Charles' say-so, offer some blades that are perhaps made with Sheffield steel (cut, stamped in Sheffield) but then finished in SA, that then bear the MIS mark.. but that is down the road and only some inner plannings of mine for the time being.
- Mike
Thank you Michael for setting the records straight and for your vision. There will always be ones that say the new W&B will never be the same but Mark Waterson turned around a flagging Simpson brand into the success it is today. So I say good luck and I can't wait to see what happens.
Michael I wish you the best of luck with your efforts. I've never had a particular hankering for moving to SA but if there's a job opening let me know!
Thanks for setting us straight Michael ! Many of us as well,hold the W&B name in high regard and it is comforting to learn of the future plans you have for this historically grand name. I will be looking forward with great interest in your product and your venture. Good luck !
Yes!!! :yQuote:
Originally Posted by MichaelC
That was beautiful to read, I'm trying not to weep with joy.....:-)
I too love the Wade and Butcher brand and their razors, and from reading your post, and thank-you by the way for posting that, I'm truly excited and look forward to owning and trying one of your razors.
I've been hooked on them since virtually the start, there's just something about Sheffield steel that for me at least, Wade & Butcher captures so perfectly. While I enjoy having many fine razors in my collection, I always come back to W&B, they do it for me every time...
Good luck, and am truly looking forward to seeing your work.
Here's to the day when we see on of these again, newly crafted circa 2017...:)
Attachment 236996
So to buy a new W&B razor that is not made in Sheffield, will be high, paying for an over priced imitation, that right??
Good luck on your venture, i signed up but I personally think if you had such a high regard for W&B you should have left it where it was.
I hope i am wrong but all i see is dollar signs in your eyes.
Not too nice there, Gabriel?Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
The man is working to accomplish something within the realm of what he enjoys.
In fact, there is a lot of 'England' in SA, AFAIK. He has stated it will be a lower-production custom affair. We have no idea as of yet what the prices shall be.
Don't write yourself off as not being able to afford one and insult the idea just yet......
We should all encourage his efforts and applaud them until we see how things go. JMO
Just stating a fact. There may be a lot of England in SA but SA aint England and it wont be Sheffield steel.
Sheffield steel is hard good stuff as i'm sure your well aware of.
In buying the W&B name, he is making "original" Wades more valuable which in turn making them harder to buy from sellers on Ebay and the likes that already ask a fortune from selling original Wades.
As to your comment on my not affording them, i have a few good original Wade & Butcher razors that have cost a fortune but a fortune differs from one to another.
I was referring to the working man being able to afford, after all, it was the working men that made the original W&B razors that this he is trying to revive but it simply wont be the same, nothing to it.
The blood, sweat, tears and even their lives went into making the razors.
So please, dont try to make me out to be the bad guy here, i am entitled to my opinion, i do wish him luck but his razors will be nothing like the originals. Period.
Forgive any misunderstandings, Gabriel, but your post #58 came off, to me anyway, as quite rude and a direct affront to MichaelC and his endeavors. He was good enough to come here and state his business plan and seems to have truthfully done so. He has stated emphatically that 'Made in Sheffield' shall not apply. He also related that he shall be sourcing steel from Sweden. Honesty?
TBH, he has weathered much similar static over his Zulu hones in the past, yet they have quite the following these days.
My suggestion to take a 'wait and see' would be much better than slinging mud at something you, nor I, nor anyone else has physically seen, nor held in-hand.
BTW, most old Sheffield steel is not so hard. JMO
G-day! :chapeau
Well that depends on how hard your biceps are ;)
Yes, was going to mention, Sheffield steel if anything is comparatively a much softer steel than the Japanese or Swiss razors by far....Sheffield steel is like silk....the edge that an Escher puts on my W&B's is ferkin' sublime...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Try some 20th century American steel! :eek:
I have an all original, pins, scales etc. , Wade & Butcher from the 1820's that was handed down by my grandfathers.
Will one of Michael's razors carry the same status in my collection, No,, at least not for another 200 years. :shrug:
But,,,,
I can't wait to see the product when he is finished & if I like what I see,, I'll buy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
I'm just stating a fact too. Yes you are entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion your post was inappropriate. I hesitated to post this but each time I read your posts, I felt like I just couldn't let it go.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
I'm just at a loss for how to properly, yet somewhat politely, respond to this. Every single person who choses to attempt a business venture is, or at least should be, considering the likelihood of earning money from the venture. Otherwise what would be the point the business? I certainly would hope that Michael is planning to make money from this. Otherwise, he would be an idiot and he never has come across that way to me. Lynn has taken a lot of flak for profiting from SRP by setting up SRD. Did he do anything wrong? Of course not. Did he expect to make money from the endeavor? Of course he did! In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with anyone recognizing and capitalizing on a business opportunity. In this case of W&B, Michael thinks he can make some money on this. You are just going to have to get over the fact that he is not doing it simply as an altruistic endeavor just for the good of mankind.
Then again, a lot of "Sheffield steel" actually was Swedish steel. You are going to have to deal with the fact that we live on a planet, not a single country, and even the folks at W&B had the sense to buy steel from another country.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
Really? How exactly would that be accomplished? Seriously, I have no idea how his decision to buy the name will have any impact on the value of the previously made razors. It doesn't make any sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
I admit it, I've never studied economics. I had no interest in it in college and the approximately 2 weeks of it that I had in high school left me with an understanding of diminishing returns and pretty much nothing else. Despite my ignorance, I do understand that supply and demand determine price. There is a decent supply of W&B vintage razors and, due to our forums, a high demand. For that reason they command a premium price on ebay. That supply of vintage razors will be unaffected by any potential influx of Michael's razors. I cannot comprehend your logic in claiming that the addition of newly made W&B razors would in any way increase the price of those vintage razors. I would think if anything, the influx of new ones might mitigate some of the demand for the vintage razors, thereby causing the price of the vintage razors to go down, not up.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
You know what? Quite often working men make stuff that they cannot afford to buy themselves. So what? Most of the men who made the original W&B razors are dead. Have you noticed that our cars are not the same as the cars made a hundred years ago? Things change. Really, other than rocks, most things do in fact change over time. Here's an example...razors used to all be wedges until someone figured out how to hollow grind them. It was considered to be an improvement. In other words, they were NOT THE SAME. The company adjusted and started making hollow ground razors even though they were not the same as what had been made before. Are you comprehending this? Hint...sometimes things that are not rocks do change, and this includes razors.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
Here is a reality check for you. Michael and his partners are going to have to put a lot of work into this. I have no doubt that they are very aware of the fact that the bar is set very high and they are going to have to produce an excellent razor.
Michael already said that they will not be like the originals. He said that they will be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
Period.
Hey Gabriel,
No worries man, I totally get your opinion and indeed you are welcome to it as there are likely many who feel as you do, and again it is completely understandable.
I must tell you, it has been something I've grappled with since having this idea 2 years ago.. To revive the brand or to leave it be.. it is a difficult decision - make no mistake.
But as I see it, there really is no way of bringing back the 'original' W&B... we have to all accept that William and Samuel Butcher are long past away... their Butchers' Wheel is now a heritage site, their workmen, their suppliers, have all passed away many years ago. Indeed their complete way of life and the market their company thrived in is no more.
What remains, however, is the name, the brand marks, their razor design legacy, and History's recording of that original company changing hands to to where it still lays in sleep to this day. And that alone is something to be quite excited about.
As Charles Turner said to me early on in our correspondences: "...Companies and names should live and breathe. They should certainly take a nod to their history then move ahead..."
I ask you all then, what is a Brand? If it can't be the physical hands that made the first product, and it can't be a building or a long-gone workforce, then what makes a brand what we hold it to be in our minds?
To me, it's an ethos. It's the philosophy that guides the How and Why of the products, and indeed it's beyond the products themselves as mere physical goods...
Like it or not, W&B razors were always essentially mass-produced implements for shaving (imperfectly crafted even on their most expensive models). You can bet William and Samuel Butcher did not have this nostalgic gloss over their company and products as we do - how could they? For them it was just a production business - successful, but a business like any other. But Time and Generations have evolved the Brand into something greater than that, something we are still actively discussing in 2016..
My simple aim is to marry that intangible ideal we have of 'Wade&Butcher', with physical goods that are more than deserving of carrying the name.
Regards,
- Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
Excellent! I got literally got tingles down my spine reading this.
One, you obviously have something against me, obviously i hit a nerve with you, two, i have my own business in not just restoration of original Wades but of razors, so yes, putting the price of those on Ebay, that are already a fortune to buy (on razors that have not even been restored) up because your God Michael, has bought the name and trademark. Maybe you cant see that due to the love haze around your head with the announcement of the new W&B.
You know nothing about me as i do with any of you and i am entitled to my opinion, if you really lovef Wade & Butcher you would leave as is. Yes, its good he's trying, it's good he's trying to revive the name but thats all it is at the end of the day.
I am actually surprised that he got away with advertising it here on this website, even in the shape of an announcement, where were the mods to remove it as they did mine when i was trying to get off the ground with my business??
The only thing you have taught me here is one rule for one, one for another.
Your pretty fast in putting me in my place for having an opinion, which dont really look good, anyway, good luck to the man in his venture which i have already said, oh thats right, you missed that part out aye? Even though my opinion is what it is i still wish him good luck and signed up for his newsletter. Did you not read that part?
You clearly
Its a bold move Michael flying the Wade & Butcher colors on your razor venture. I hope it works out for you and I hope it turns out to be a good move for the Wade & Butcher brand.
My reading comprehension is just fine. My opinion differs from yours, and that is all. I have nothing against you, as I have no knowledge of you beyond your posts in this thread. I do find it odd that you repeatedly wish him luck on the endeavor that you also repeatedly criticize him for undertaking.
I am not putting you in your place for having an opinion. I disagree with your opinion. How is that not clear?
It's 3:54 am and I'm taking my vintage Wade & Butcher, placing it under my pillow & getting a few hours sleep.
You have made yourself perfectly clear, I criticise because i am entitled to like you all do with every razor that has been in your hands and touched your face and i wish him luck because it's called good sportsmanship, where is yours to me and my business Utopian?
If the price goes up on original W&B razors on Ebay & the likes, people like me that restore & sell them will also up the price which i have already done.
Honestly, I have no clue what you are talking about. This thread is not about you. It's not about your business. If you have any doubt about that, re-read the title of the thread.
Since you made a fuss about the mods' unfair treatment of you, in your estimation, I went ahead and did a quick scan of all of your posts in this forum. I have a much better understanding of your motivation now. It's not exactly subtle.
Well your actions clearly say you have something against me Utopian & making it personal. Where is the same encouragement you asked me to have for Michael? Where are all your help & encouragement for me?
I was very excited on hearing Wade & Butcher were returning but on closer reading here, the razors will just be custom razors with the Wade & Butcher name on.
Already by looking at my past posts you are trying to blacken my name where you should be helping me. Shame on you!
Ps and others like me that are trying to set up own business.
The point i am making is not about me but about posting their business when i was not allowed, subtle or not.
The main debate i was stating is that his work WILL NOT BE Wade&Butcher, just the name that he has bought, nothing more.
I was referring to my business and others like me that this will affect in the long run.
So far i only see favouritism from you Utopian.
Again i wish him luck on his venture.
I have voiced my opinion as have you, lets leave it at that shall we.
Best regards
Gabe
Gabriel. I can't find where I said anything, but be assured I am not attempting to blacken anyone. It is not my attempt nor is it my intent and I am not a troll. If I said something that touched you so I apologize if I knew what it was. I am new to this kind of posting and every bit of it is simply confusing to me and I have as of yet been able to figure this gig saw puzzle out. I am 71 with many debilitating physical conditions memory being one. I have attempted to ask for help but no one seems to be interested enough to give me a few tips. Please accept my apology and let this go. I am too old to fight and am totally uninterested in scraps on a site.
I disagreed with you. Can you possibly understand that is not personal? Until THIS THREAD, I did not know you existed. The entirety of the basis of my response to what wrote was WHAT YOU WROTE. I disagreed with your opinion and that is all I knew about you at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
I never asked you to offer any encouragement to Michael. You cannot twist things that way without being called out on it. That fact that I disagreed with your criticism of his endeavor cannot in any way be construed as my asking you to encourage him. That simply is an absurd claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
Seriously, are you that insecure? Again, my first knowledge of your existence was in THIS THREAD and in THIS THREAD I disagreed with your opinion. Why would I encourage an opinion that I disagree with? This is exactly the same logic by which I find it bizarre that you wish (sportsmanlike) luck to someone pursuing an endeavor with which you disagree. That would be equivalent to saying "hey I don't want to get shot but good luck with your aiming that gun at me."Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
Regarding helping you, are you kidding? Again, read the title of this thread. I've read enough of your other posts now to recognize that you have no problem asking for help, so if you need help on something, ask for it in another thread, not here.
Yeah right. I'm still trying to understand your logic in stating the following.Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
"In buying the W&B name, he is making "original" Wades more valuable which in turn making them harder to buy from sellers on Ebay and the likes that already ask a fortune from selling original Wades."
Regardless, I'm pretty sure that "excited" was not the right word for it given the criticism of his plan.
:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielMartin
Seriously? If reading your past posts blackens your name, then maybe you should start changing what you post.
