Thread: Preferred Steel

HA HA similar life choice

I've always been wary of self proclaimed Experts
as I've always read it as follows

an "Ex" is a 'has been'
&
a "Spert" is a 'drip under pressure'

had a could of arguments from experts over the years when I have told them my analogy of their claims

but I do like the unknown drip under pressure analogy also LOL

Originally Posted by MichaelC

To me, a modern, sophisticated stainless steel that can achieve the appropriate hardness (60-63 HRC) and that presents a fine-grain structured tempered finished blade makes the most logical sense for use in the construction of a 'wet' bladed tool like a straight razor.

Wonder why no one's made a razor out of this "fine grain structured stainless" yet ?


Costs maybe ?

Originally Posted by Razorfaust

I work in the O.R. every day and surgical instruments are immersed in blood puss saline solutions and other bodily fluids for Hours not minutes before someone even begins to think about cleaning them. I don't know how they survive?

The idea of body fluids staining stain resistant steels is valid over hours, minutes on carbon steels. However, that very thin edge that does all the real work does not last more than minutes in a bloody living solution. Next time you're in the OR, see how often the surgeon asks for a new scalpel when cutting tissue. Human chemistry degrades the edge surprisingly quick and human skin is some tough stuff.

The idea of carbon vs stain resistant has been picked up in the culinary world too. Apparently the micro-pitting that occurs on carbon steels from food chemistry, not to mention that nasty black patina, is the perfect place to harbor bacteria that might cause an unsuspecting customer to have a cramp. As much as chefs prefer carbon, they are up against the bureaucrats in the health department when it comes to their tools.

Likely this same doctrine is why barbers had to give up use-more-than-once razors on their customers.

The "why" of carbon vs stain resistance has more variables than appear to the eye.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Wonder why no one's made a razor out of this "fine grain structured stainless" yet ? Costs maybe ?

The cost of steel in a razor is inconsequential when compared to the labor or the other materials involved in dressing it up (scales etc.) There are some razors out there made of CPM154. It's an old steel recipe but updated to include the sintered powder metallurgy that the steel companies are capable of. I have not personally tried one but know a couple makers who have sold a few with good reports returning on their performance. I would err toward "fine grained" when it comes to stain resistant materials. Chromium is a pig when it comes to growing carbides, especially with suspect or uncontrolled heat treatment processes.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

The idea of body fluids staining stain resistant steels is valid over hours, minutes on carbon steels. However, that very thin edge that does all the real work does not last more than minutes in a bloody living solution. Next time you're in the OR, see how often the surgeon asks for a new scalpel when cutting tissue. Human chemistry degrades the edge surprisingly quick and human skin is some tough stuff.

The idea of carbon vs stain resistant has been picked up in the culinary world too. Apparently the micro-pitting that occurs on carbon steels from food chemistry, not to mention that nasty black patina, is the perfect place to harbor bacteria that might cause an unsuspecting customer to have a cramp. As much as chefs prefer carbon, they are up against the bureaucrats in the health department when it comes to their tools.

Likely this same doctrine is why barbers had to give up use-more-than-once razors on their customers.

The "why" of carbon vs stain resistance has more variables than appear to the eye.

Well yes scalpel blades are disposable. Curets, scissors, drill bits, reamers not so much evidently the surgical grade of stainless is quite resistant.

Originally Posted by Razorfaust

Well yes scalpel blades are disposable. Curets, scissors, drill bits, reamers not so much evidently the surgical grade of stainless is quite resistant.

When they went to disposable Trocars I grabbed the stainless ones out of the scrap barrel.

I bet I had the most expensive tent stakes around!

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

The cost of steel in a razor is inconsequential when compared to the labor or the other materials involved in dressing it up (scales etc.) There are some razors out there made of CPM154. It's an old steel recipe but updated to include the sintered powder metallurgy that the steel companies are capable of. I have not personally tried one but know a couple makers who have sold a few with good reports returning on their performance. I would err toward "fine grained" when it comes to stain resistant materials. Chromium is a pig when it comes to growing carbides, especially with suspect or uncontrolled heat treatment processes.

I was wondering if SS requires more effort hence a higher manufacturing cost. The carbide thing was also on my mind but I guess Henckels got it right with their SS razors.
When someone says fine grian I think of ,say, Puma carbon steel razors. So that kind of quality can be achieved with a SS at an equal manufacturing cost ?

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I was wondering if SS requires more effort hence a higher manufacturing cost. ... So that kind of quality can be achieved with a SS at an equal manufacturing cost ?

The present state of metallurgical knowledge allows for very precise control of the grain structure given thermal and time controls. Yes, the quality has been improved significantly. You are correct to assume that more control equals a higher cost. I think the INOX steels have been optimized for straight razors. There is a point where good enough beats perfect. Those companies who make stainless razors are obviously willing to accept the cost and the results of their efforts.

Originally Posted by Wayne1963

Sharp is sharp, no matter what the blade composition. However, durability is a different story. I have a Zero Tolerance knife with CTS-204p and a BenchMade with CPM-M4, and their edge-holding ability is astounding. They will eat a high carbon blade for breakfast and never even burp.

Unfortunately, there's more to cutting than sharp; namely, how long a cutting instrument remains sharp.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Define the use of the words "Razor Expert"

I have no clue But he considered himself an expert. Hence, my placing quotes around razor expert.

There are quite a few on youtube.