Thread: Micro pitting, how much is too much?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

To the OP, looks like Cell Rot pitting, and the edge is falling apart. Even at 500X the edge does not look good.

What are you stropping on, and do you know what the scratches on the back of the bevel and the belly of the razor are from?

I would lightly joint it and re set the bevel. You do have at least one pit at the edge.

Was the Herder a Cell Rot razor.

As an aside I did a big old F. Herder for a guy in Reindeer Antler and it was a smoking shaver.

nope, scales are just fine, and pictures are not stropped razor yet, ... it was in the middle of honning when i checked the microscope and found the pitting...
also, there are in fact more than one pit at the edge.. there were 3... problem is that they are all over the bevel, so if I set bevel again, more holes will be in the new edge...

like I said, i shaved with it just fine after i finished the honing/stropping process... i Agree with BadB it's on my mind that the bade has pitting even when using it.. also, i'm thinking shaving with it could do nothing good to it as more humidity will get into the pitting and it will be hard to remove, even stropping after shaving... that would make the issue to grow...

I'm not sure if i'll use the blade to shave again, but the topic is interesting!

My take on micro pitting and microscopes for honing as a novice honer is from honing and shaving with vintage razors of which quite a few have this issue.

First off I do not use a microscope just a loupe of 20x to 30x, I can't remember which. I have been successfully shaving with my edges for a couple of years now. I am sure they are not likely as sharp as a pro honed blade but they do the job nicely. I do daily 4 pass shaves so they can't be all that bad either.

Many of my vintage razors have micro pitting from rust. That presents a problem if they are at/very near the edge, apex of the bevel. While resetting the bevel I hone until none are at the edge on the bevel and the bevel is set. This is usually done on a 1K Naniwa. I then go up the progression. At any stage should more micro pits appear on the edge I go back to the bevel setting hone and hone past the new pitting. It can be frustrating and you can loose some blade with but you eventually get there. There can be micro pitting still on the bevel once finished honing but not on the edge. Never had one that would not shave in that condition. Is it ideal, no. If you can't live with that don't buy vintage razors to be on the safe side.

I refuse to buy a microscope and scare the crap out of myself by how bad the edge and bevel will look under high magnification. Even a blade without micro pitting from rust likely will look cratered like the lunar landscape under such high magnification from what I have seen posted on this site. Anyway, take that with a huge grain of salt as it is coming from a novice honer.

Bob

When you buy any item there has to be an understanding when you examine your purchase and decide if it is defective or not is that based on a visual inspection meaning via your eyes or based on magnification and if so how much.

In my book it's based on a visual inspection. With a razor, if it shaves fine and looks good with reasonable aid meaning a magnifying glass that's the end of it. if I sold a razor and someone put it under 100x and complained I'd tell him what he could do with his magnifier.

You are buying a used item anyway and that carries an expectation. Even most new items won't hold up to 100x whatever the item is.

I sell watches and it really chaps my hide when some dude buys a used watch at half price and then tells me he sees scratches I didn't disclose which he sees with 30x magnification and then tries to shake me down for a partial refund.

Cell rot does not have to come from the scales on the razor, it could have been stored with an off-gassing razor, (I have seen an entire glass case in an Antique Store, affected by a single razor), or yours, re-scaled.

The steel is bad and crumbling whatever the cause. You may get lucky and get to solid steel if you remove more steel.

It’s not the pits so much, you can hone around them, it is the crumbling edge of bad steel that is an issue.

I have honed razors with slight pitting, and you just have to keep honing until you have no pits at the edge. Pits on the bevel don’t matter.

But what are the stria on the back of the bevel and the belly of the razor from, some horizontal? Those are unique, not from circles, all of them are straight.

What was the condition of the razor when you received it?

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I sell watches and it really chaps my hide when some dude buys a used watch at half price and then tells me he sees scratches

in some cases a razor that costed 2$ original is sold now for 200$ so not necessarily used here means cheaper, but I understand the point.. i guess the gap here is.. what is considered shave ready and what not... but indeed it's understandable that if a seller is not capable of seeing the damage, but the buyer is... then an arrangement should be sought?


I mean, you have a 30x magnifier.. there are folks selling razors that don't even care the condition and hence there should not be issue... but when once again, when you cal it "shave ready"... what does that imply.. it's demonstrated in this very same thread that there are different meaning for the same expression

So if this should become a big issue in general in the vintage razor selling market would it make a difference if all vintage razors currently listed as "shave ready" started using the term "newly honed"?

If you bought such a razor would you still feel justified in returning it after inspection at 500x?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Cell rot does not have to come from the scales on the razor, it could have been stored with an off-gassing razor, (I have seen an entire glass case in an Antique Store, affected by a single razor), or yours, re-scaled.

u are right on that i failed to think about that.. it might have been stored on the same container with a celu rot handles/razor


But what are the stria on the back of the bevel and the belly of the razor from, some horizontal? Those are unique, not from circles, all of them are straight.
What was the condition of the razor when you received it?[/QUOTE]

uhhh it was not in a good condition.. to be honest i think someone sanded this horizontally on a couple of sports with sand paper.. maybe 1000 or 1200 to remove one stain or two...
but worst part is that the honed it unevenly for a long time... like the blade width at the hill was 2 mm wider than at the toe... now it's been, and that was my main interest, on learning how to do that

i think i will follow your advice and hone it a bit more (now that it is even)... and see if i can get rid of all the pits on the very edge

Originally Posted by gcbryan

So if this should become a big issue in general in the vintage razor selling market would it make a difference if all vintage razors currently listed as "shave ready" started using the term "newly honed"?

If you bought such a razor would you still feel justified in returning it after inspection at 500x?

LOL indeed... this would refdefine some things... neertheless. newly hones by no means is the same than "shave ready" LOL

Originally Posted by gabrielcr78

LOL indeed... this would refdefine some things... neertheless. newly hones by no means is the same than "shave ready" LOL

I think it is.

I think that a few of these expectations are extreme by the buyers.

If you expect what you are purchasing to be free of defects under 1000 X magnification or to be in perfect condition under any magnification after 1 year of ownership and use you should ask the seller if they guarantee it.

These defects shown as examples here in this thread are defects in the buyer not the seller.