Thread: Question About Shoulderless Grinds with Demarcated Shoulders

Originally Posted by Hanlon

Thanks for that very thorough answer, really appreciate it!

I've got a matched set of three I. Turrill razors c.1830-.c1850 that also have this line. Turrill was a maker of dressing and writing cases, not of razors. For no real reason except the pleasure of detective work, I was kind of hoping I could trace their manufacture back to a specific maker like Rodgers, but you shot that theory all to heck. Guess I'll never know for sure who made them.

The whole 'who made that' question is one I've chased a lot, myself. I did a big writeup on it here.

The short version is that the tang stamp only tells you who put in the work order, not where it was made. Those Rodgers razors could've been made at Marshes & Shepherd's workshops, or the Butcher brothers, or the Raggs. There isn't really any way of knowing who actually made them unless they're from a tiny number of very small, historically identifiable manufacturers.

Originally Posted by CrownCork

In those times the bevels were ground freehand. Looks like a indexing mark were the bevel should originate on the heel

While I've definitely come across one or two that were honed that way, it was not the accepted norm.

Here's Ebenezer Rhodes, Sheffield manufacturer & Master Cutler on the subject in 1822:



And here's Benjamin Kingsbury, an influential London -- the edition was most recently updated around the same time as Rhodes, but it was first published in the late 1700's.

Originally Posted by MikeT

This pinwork, does anyone know the name of the art method? I've read it before and can't remember.
When I first saw it years ago I thought "meh, no big deal".
Upon closer inspection, it seems to have taken serious effort to do right, to do it well, it also has a unique style it seems, besides the unique method! Now I'm a big fan of it.
Does anyone have a timeframe it was being made?
...tiny little holes drilled and then metal pins inserted and filed flush. The work must've been time consuming!
Can I get a pic of the full scale?
Thank you!

It's called pique work, because very early on English manufacturers realized they could charge more for French words.

They did it exactly that way. I've seen maybe as many as 4 different gauges of wire used. Ideally, each pin would be very delicately hammered to make it more snugly fit, then ground flat. It worked best on ivory or bone, but I've also seen it in tortoise and very occasionally horn.

I can only guess at how accurate this wikipedia page is, but I don't have any real reason to doubt the dates it gives. Razor scales as ornate as what's shown there are very rare.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

The whole 'who made that' question is one I've chased a lot, myself. I did a big writeup on it here.

The short version is that the tang stamp only tells you who put in the work order, not where it was made. Those Rodgers razors could've been made at Marshes & Shepherd's workshops, or the Butcher brothers, or the Raggs. There isn't really any way of knowing who actually made them unless they're from a tiny number of very small, historically identifiable manufacturers.

Thanks for the write up in the link. Really good stuff in there.

Holy s#!+ those are museum pieces!
Both of you guys have some serious works of art.
As far as the number of pins.. Wow! Even with some kind of stencil or jig pattern ... Had to be crazy time consuming.
Now my questions are:
-Are there any records of the methods used for this art form?
-Can we do the same?
Those pins, errr uh wire?, very thin.. Drill hole first and then insert? Hammer it in? Driven in with speed?
I assume a tiny drill, but then I second guess that thought.
There's a kind of unique style to it, very cool!

Thanks for the pics! Very much appreciated.

All I can say with regards to method is: it would take someone with a lot better eyesight and fingers a lot more nimble than mine. (And probably with more patience too).

Originally Posted by MikeT

Holy s#!+ those are museum pieces!
Both of you guys have some serious works of art.
As far as the number of pins.. Wow! Even with some kind of stencil or jig pattern ... Had to be crazy time consuming.
Now my questions are:
-Are there any records of the methods used for this art form?
-Can we do the same?
Those pins, errr uh wire?, very thin.. Drill hole first and then insert? Hammer it in? Driven in with speed?
I assume a tiny drill, but then I second guess that thought.
There's a kind of unique style to it, very cool!

Thanks for the pics! Very much appreciated.

Technically, I believe even the 1/16th rod we use for pinning razors counts as wire, but the stuff used in pique work is a good deal smaller. I'm planning on doing a set of scales using the technique in the near future and I'll fully document it for the forum.

ScienceGuy has done a set in black horn.

When I do it, I'll be using a slab of tortoiseshell and two gauges of silver & gold wire. I'll lock my drill press down so it only penetrates about 0.5mm into the material and I'll use masking tape with a template on it. Once all the holes are drilled, the idea is to insert wire, snip with flush-cutters, then do the next one until they're all filled in. Then I'll use a watchmakers hammer with a polished peening head to get them all snug (gently), then a file to get them flat, then micromesh to get everything polished.

There are almost certainly records of how it was done. It's possible glue was used in the holes originally, something like cascamite, but it all seems relatively straight forward to me -- just very fidgety.

I have some blades with pique work. One I just happen to photograph the other day.

The blade has a slight frown.

Thanks Zak! I'll be doing it some day, though there are some epic projects that are ahead on the list.
For now my right hand is as steady as a surgeon's. Hopefully it stays that way.
That description is about what comes up when I imagine the method would be.
Probably use various thicknesses of wire. Seems glue is a good idea, but maybe no need, I'd just hate for those pins to ever come out.

Originally Posted by JOB15

I have some blades with pique work. One I just happen to photograph the other day.

The blade has a slight frown.

Oh, that should buff right out!

Originally Posted by MikeT

Thanks Zak! I'll be doing it some day, though there are some epic projects that are ahead on the list.
For now my right hand is as steady as a surgeon's. Hopefully it stays that way.
That description is about what comes up when I imagine the method would be.
Probably use various thicknesses of wire. Seems glue is a good idea, but maybe no need, I'd just hate for those pins to ever come out.

Based on all the examples I've seen, it's not at all unusual for the pins to fall out over time. Only the John Barber has all of them.