Thread: Mythical Vintage Steel

Originally Posted by Steel

200 years ago they didn’t have all the Technologies that they have today. Microscopes, power hammers, chemical analysis programs, triple burner self regulating propane forges, etc. Yet despite this, they were able to produce this razor. The steel, it is probable, was made from sand and/or other natural materials and then hand forged and perfectly tempered by skill and experience. A blade that was ground perfectly and free of warps and twists that results in a thin even bevel. They were able to produce a steel that is, as good as, if not superior to the steel in more modern razors made with more technology. Not all blades can take the keen edge a Gok20k can produce. This razor did so with ease.

Nice post.. Could even have been made from that imported Swedish stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dannemora_mine

The notion of one person creating a razor from start to finish is sadly untrue. A few people; men, women and children would be involved in the process. Razors would be churned out quickly, with someone, potentially working in different sweatshops (yup sweatshop) on different days of the week. I believe it was also common for someone grinding to have separate piles for various makers in one sitting.
But, yes ol' steel is the best steel (to me), I enjoy the shave of old Sheffields considerably more than say Theirs Issard Carbonsong steel.

Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

The notion of one person creating a razor from start to finish is sadly untrue. A few people; men, women and children would be involved in the process. Razors would be churned out quickly, with someone, potentially working in different sweatshops (yup sweatshop) on different days of the week. I believe it was also common for someone grinding to have separate piles for various makers in one sitting.
But, yes ol' steel is the best steel (to me), I enjoy the shave of old Sheffields considerably more than say Theirs Issard Carbonsong steel.

I have heard the same thing Mark. Wade & Butcher comes to mind, among others. I wonder if all companies were like that? Another consideration is this piece pre-dates Wade & Butcher, Mappin Webb, etc. “hey days” by a few decades. Either way, it is truly amazing quality that was accomplished a long time ago by people with knowledge and skill and you can certainly replace ‘him’ with ‘them’.

Love that early stuff.

I have thought about this a bit since you posted it, so apparently it was truly thought provoking. It made me think of the Alfred Pendray story about him figuring out the wootz damascus steel. A craftsman and a true backyard tinkerer of the finest order. He is not alone, there are others around the world, in back yard workshops and barns, making handmade items and crucible steel. I’m my mind they are likely all figuring out old puzzles and creating their own artistry while imitating the past. The cottage industries have been getting stepped on by the large producers and pushed out of the market. I think that will become cyclical as large industry is relatively new in the history of man. Craftsman, tradesman, and hand made are all re-emerging. The idea of disposable is becoming distasteful in our modern era and the top quality products are returning to the shelf.
Thanks for the post, it did in fact get me thinking.
:-)

Originally Posted by RezDog

I have thought about this a bit since you posted it, so apparently it was truly thought provoking. It made me think of the Alfred Pendray story about him figuring out the wootz damascus steel. A craftsman and a true backyard tinkerer of the finest order. He is not alone, there are others around the world, in back yard workshops and barns, making handmade items and crucible steel. I’m my mind they are likely all figuring out old puzzles and creating their own artistry while imitating the past. The cottage industries have been getting stepped on by the large producers and pushed out of the market. I think that will become cyclical as large industry is relatively new in the history of man. Craftsman, tradesman, and hand made are all re-emerging. The idea of disposable is becoming distasteful in our modern era and the top quality products are returning to the shelf.
Thanks for the post, it did in fact get me thinking.
:-)

This is just another aspect of this hobby. Indeed, there are many cool things about it and there is something for just about everyone. I think you are absolutely right about the circular trend! History has a way of repeating itself and this is no different.

I am not against technology and am using it to communicate now! However, there is definite limitations. Not many people can sit down at a fire and knock out a perfect blade the first time or even come close. With modern forges, tools, equipment, and the internet many can come much closer right out of the gates. Even then you have to put your time in to really perfect it. There is no substitute for experience.

I was amazed that a razor this old was so capable and it reminds me of ancient Japanese steel. There is much lore and mythology involved with that but also some excellent steel. I think Sheffield also enjoyed some excellent steel. Oz pointed to Swedish steel which was renowned and still is. I am proud to own a piece of this Sheffield steel from back then that can shave the socks off my neighbors cat! My Wade & Butcher FBU’s don’t seem to be far removed although they are much bigger and in comparison even a bit clunky.

Like Bob said, I like the traditional design in newer and custom razors. They did have practicality down pat for the most part.

Mike, it was your comments in other threads that got me thinking about all of this yesterday. We have discussed before that there is something special about this period of razors.

In the olden days artisans relied on their eyes much more than we do.The colour of the steel rather than the reading of a thermometer told them where they were at and what to do next. I am not sure whether there are similar books in English but if you read French and you are interested in olden-days craftsmanship you can read here how razors and other blades were made. Mr Perret mentions razors and how to create their particular qualities a few times.
https://books.google.de/books?id=yGl...page&q&f=false

Several points here. Much of what is known about metals and elements has been known for hundreds of years. Also in many cases iron ore just happened to come from the ground with the right mix of minerals producing some of these legendary implements by serendipity. Also things were more handmade and crafted but still those old fashioned methods can't hold a candle to modern precision methods.

A 1930 Packard might be built like a tank and have hand tufted seats and wood trim and white wall tires and 50 lbs of lacquer paint but would you really want to drive one every day and have to maintain it and get into a serious wreck in it?

As far as buildings go even the pyramids are crumbling. Nothing can hold up to mother nature and the forces of erosion. Just look at the surface of the moon. Without erosion that's what we would look like.

Originally Posted by Kees

In the olden days artisans relied on their eyes much more than we do.The colour of the steel rather than the reading of a thermometer told them where they were at and what to do next. I am not sure whether there are similar books in English but if you read French and you are interested in olden-days craftsmanship you can read here how razors and other blades were made. Mr Perret mentions razors and how to create their particular qualities a few times.
https://books.google.de/books?id=yGl...page&q&f=false

Yes! Absolutely amazing what they were able to accomplish. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Steel

I have heard the same thing Mark. Wade & Butcher comes to mind, among others. I wonder if all companies were like that? Another consideration is this piece pre-dates Wade & Butcher, Mappin Webb, etc. “hey days” by a few decades. Either way, it is truly amazing quality that was accomplished a long time ago by people with knowledge and skill and you can certainly replace ‘him’ with ‘them’.

100% agree, the quality of razors 150 plus years ago far surpass the likes of modern Dovo and Thiers Issard.