Thread: New Razors vs. Old

Just because something seems more comfortable with initial use and seems to shave better doesn't make it better. I would challenge anyone here that if you take two razors, lets say an old genco from around 1900 and say a brand spanking new TI Silver Steel and spend the time to hone them properly if you were blindfolded and someone shaved you, you would not notice any difference in the shaves. For most of us there are many variables in shaving. Each day is different and most of our razors are honed to a slightly different degree of sharpness just to mention two things.

But whether the actual razors of yesterday were better steel thats a different issue. I collect watches and most modern mechanical watches are more accurate than those made 80 years ago but thats because modern ones are all CAD designed and parts are machined with high tech equipment while the older ones were designed the old way by a guy on a drafting table and older machining methods so the tolerances now are much tighter. However modern watches some think use components made from softer metals which have a very thin case hardening on them while over time will wear and that spells trouble. The older watches used a better quality and harder metal to begin with. Many doubt modern watches will last more than 30-40 years with constant wear while older models seem to go on forever.

Age might "season" the steel in a blade but what about this:
-were the blade edge angles identical in design years ago vs. today? (think I read that most are 11 degrees...)
-A seasoned razor has been honed a lot, maybe this appreciably changed the angle on the edge by grinding down the spine? That ought to really affect the "feel" of the blade I would think, as well as how long it holds an edge.

Originally Posted by johnny_angel

Age might "season" the steel in a blade but what about this:

Or this to expand on spendur's point:

In the "olden days" things were generally overdesigned. They couldn't just pipe their CAD file into some failure analysis algorithm and see what happened the next day. I don't know about watches but in the auto industry they generally design to within a hairsbreadth of the specification because they CAN. And that's especially true if it affects material or manufacturing cost.

Design differences, even subtle ones, may be difference here. That's my guess.

But I never shaved with a duck so this is all just a crazy theory...

This all being said I think it is a simple fact to note here that my 7/8 w&b is my best and nicest shaver I have used so far. I haven't tried alot. wapi's dovo's a TI sheffield,. I think a duck may be waddling my way soon. I don't know if its the steal or the smile in the blade but it just seems easier to shave with then any of the lesser grinds I have tried using. I am going to test it against a puma here very soon after it is honed and see what I think of that.

I think it also comes down to a different attitude toward the razor.

I'm a carbon steel (old steel) kind of person, so I look at my knives and razors with that kind of "prejudice?". I see a carbon blade and think of all the things it's done in it's history (even the new ones) as opposed to stainless (sneeze) that shows no charm or character, but thats me...

That said my best shavers seem to be the 100 year olds and lesser as the age comes more to present. Now is that a prejudice or a fact of manufacture? (or is it the beer talking???)

Anyway I'm in the older is better court.

Most of the cheap and low-end razors from yesteryear are long gone - what we've got left are the good ones. Also your new-razor experience is limited to Dovo, and from what I hear most modern Dovos are basically the same razor with different cosmetics. Do your new Dovos include a Prima Klang or Bergischer Lowe? If not you might want to pick up a Lynn-honed Bergischer Lowe and see how it compares.

I've also read (don't know if its true) that Dovo is having trouble finding skilled labor to make their razors. Could it be that more people knew how to make quality razors in the past? With a bigger pool, the products would generally tend to be better, no?

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

I've also read (don't know if its true) that Dovo is having trouble finding skilled labor to make their razors. Could it be that more people knew how to make quality razors in the past? With a bigger pool, the products would generally tend to be better, no?

Better finished, finer ground, etc yes. However that doesn't affect how the razor shaves - that's the steel and heat treating process. But none of these outfits ever made their own steel, and proper heat treating isn't rocket science and you only need one guy that knows how to do it anyway. If modern Dovos don't shave as well as the old ones, it's because they are cheaping out on the steel, or cheaping out on the heat treating.

Look at TI - they look like they're made by a high school shop class, but they shave incredibly well because they use good steel and have a great heat treating recipe. And if the new Silverwing manufacturing process and steel succeeds in removing the worst aspects of the old TI's QC problems while ramping up the steel quality, then you'll have something that could blow away the best of the vintage razors.

It's not as though the vintage razors were all paragons of quality after all. I've got a Wostenholm "Celebrated" that is ground with one side of the blade nearly parallel to the scales. Shaves great though, which is probably why it wasn't thrown away a century ago.

Originally Posted by mparker762

Also your new-razor experience is limited to Dovo, and from what I hear most modern Dovos are basically the same razor with different cosmetics. Do your new Dovos include a Prima Klang or Bergischer Lowe? If not you might want to pick up a Lynn-honed Bergischer Lowe and see how it compares.

Is this your recommendation for the best of the ("lower" end) modern razors (which as far as I can tell is limited to Dovo & TI)? After all, if I can explain to my wife that this is in the name of research...

Roger

Originally Posted by Sweeney T

Is this your recommendation for the best of the ("lower" end) modern razors (which as far as I can tell is limited to Dovo & TI)? After all, if I can explain to my wife that this is in the name of research...

I wouldn't say that - I haven't tried them all after all. The TI silversteel razors are great as well, and they aren't too expensive. But there are only a few dovos that are "not like the others", and those are the BL, PK, and the damascus razors. Both the BL (which I own and love) and the PK (which I don't but has a great rep) are reasonably priced, and the BL is a beautiful razor to boot. The TI's have had some serious manufacturing problems lately - when I got my Wheat Berry earlier this year I had to return the first one because it was completely unserviceable and had no excuse leaving the factory, and the second one wasn't great but could be made to work. Dovos aren't perfect but they're much better than TI. Hopefully the new equipment will eliminate these manufacturing problems with the new silverwings.