Thread: Finally! The truth about "Silver Steel"

Just some personal observations to add to this topic.
I owe a silversteel DOVO and a Henckels Friodur that has "finest silberstahl" stamped on the tang.
The Dovo is far from stainless, while the Friodur seems to almost possess the stainless properties from a modern kitchen knife.
The Friodur behaves more resilient on the hone than the DOVO.

There seems to be a clear difference between the alloys of both steels.

Could it be possible that "Silver"steel is just a kind of marketing term, that different razor manufacturers use(d) to lend some of their razors a bit more luster and quality? According to the store where I bough it, the Dovo Silversteel just takes a bit of a nicer polish than their carbon-steel razors.
Maybe "silversteel" just means "slightly more expensive than regular carbon steel" without it being an exact recipe for alloy.

slightly...
Imagine that in 100 years a big meteor impact causes some kind of magnetic storm that worldwide erases all digital data. Another 100 years thereafter someone wants to figure out what the addition "light" means as it was printed on more than half of the food and beverage products in the early 21st century. If that person hopes to find some standardized definition, he could search all his life and still haven't found it.

Just wondering...

Bart.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

It is quite possible that silver was tested experimentally, although with the seeming ease that it tarnishes alone, I don't know why they would have used it other than "I wonder what this will do?"

Mike, thanks for posting - I think you are probably the best versed in metalurgy here.

My speculation is the same - why not try alloying with silver and see what happens. The advantage is that it was very accessible in very pure form. Not sure same was true back then with Cromium - do you have any insight on this?
My impression from previous readings were that the alloying was at 0.02% level, not sure whether that's enough to change the mechanical properties or is it just the looks.
I'm sure that such small fractions could be enough to change the surface chemistry. After all a tiny bit of moisture makes big difference in oxidation/corrosion.

Originally Posted by Bart

Just some personal observations to add to this topic.
I owe a silversteel DOVO and a Henckels Friodur that has "finest silberstahl" stamped on the tang.
The Dovo is far from stainless, while the Friodur seems to almost possess the stainless properties from a modern kitchen knife.
The Friodur behaves more resilient on the hone than the DOVO.

There seems to be a clear difference between the alloys of both steels.

Could it be possible that "Silver"steel is just a kind of marketing term, that different razor manufacturers use(d) to lend some of their razors a bit more luster and quality? According to the store where I bough it, the Dovo Silversteel just takes a bit of a nicer polish than their carbon-steel razors.
Maybe "silversteel" just means "slightly more expensive than regular carbon steel" without it being an exact recipe for alloy.

slightly...
Imagine that in 100 years a big meteor impact causes some kind of magnetic storm that worldwide erases all digital data. Another 100 years thereafter someone wants to figure out what the addition "light" means as it was printed on more than half of the food and beverage products in the early 21st century. If that person hopes to find some standardized definition, he could search all his life and still haven't found it.

Just wondering...

Bart.

Exactly right. Its a marketing tactic like oldsmobile used to advertise their cars came with the "rocket 98 engine" and many believed the engine was something special until a guy sued GM and won over the claim. To add silver to the steel would do nothing to enhance it in any way. it wouldn't even add to the color in such small qualtities. Silver is added to yellow Gold along with either nickel or palladium to make what we call white gold but its really grey gold. However the silver really does nothing for the color. The stuff is soft, tarnishes and if anything would make the metal softer.

Silver steel is not a marketing gimmick nor is it a form of stainless steel. It is actually a high carbon alloy steel that meets the following specifications:

http://www.silver-steel.co.uk/SilverSteelBS1407.html

These are Brittish specs. There are similar German specifications as well (DIN 1.2002) and French (AFNOR 120C2).

The carbon content is usually above 1% and it does contain some Chrome, usually about 0.40%, so can be thought of as a high carbon alloy. The chrome content is, however, substancially less than even some of the so called "low chrome" alloys such as 2-1/4 Chrome - 1/2 Moly.

It is usually considered a tool grade steel. It gets its name because of its bright appeance, which is due to the high carbon content. It is also known as "bright steel". With proper heat treating, it will harden to a RC of about 64.

That is quite a sufficient reference to chemistry, very similar to the one I reviewed in my materials book. Thanks fcc...

In the "old days" I don't think as much was known about the common alloying elements like chromium or the others like vanadium or moly. There wasn't good enough chemistry at that time to separate those because their melting temperatures, to isolate them from the iron ore, were too close to the iron. Where silver and the other metals, they had a much larger experience working (since before the iron age) and could easily separate them by melting temperatures.

Originally Posted by fccexpert

Silver steel is not a marketing gimmick nor is it a form of stainless steel. It is actually a high carbon alloy steel that meets the following specifications:

http://www.silver-steel.co.uk/SilverSteelBS1407.html

These are Brittish specs. There are similar German specifications as well (DIN 1.2002) and French (AFNOR 120C2).

The carbon content is usually above 1% and it does contain some Chrome, usually about 0.40%, so can be thought of as a high carbon alloy. The chrome content is, however, substancially less than even some of the so called "low chrome" alloys such as 2-1/4 Chrome - 1/2 Moly.

It is usually considered a tool grade steel. It gets its name because of its bright appeance, which is due to the high carbon content. It is also known as "bright steel". With proper heat treating, it will harden to a RC of about 64.

I already posted that, several back. The question is: since it doesn't actually have silver in it, how can calling it "silver steel" be anything other than a marketing ploy? (Which was my initial point in starting this thread in the first place)
I was hoping to dispel any myths surrounding the steel. It's just very good, extremely clean tool steel that heat treats well and will take a very fine edge. Kinda like most any modern cutlery grade steel.

Thanks Joe!!!

This explains why a couple of my antique saws always work better than my others. I can see why this was such a revolution in hand saw technology. A peice of equipment every man had to own, much like a razor. When seeing how well it improved the performance of one cutting tool I can see why the men of that era would have been attracted to another cutting tool expecting similar improvments in performance. Weather they were there or not.

I thought this post was pretty interesting and learned something from it. I know it's an older post.... Just wondering if any new info has surfaced on Sheffield Steel?

New in what way?

If you mean silver steel it's just a term and it contains no silver. Apparently, going way way back there was an alloy of steel that did contain minute amounts of silver but that's more a historical fact. It was never used in razors.

We have had quite a few posts on the subject of sheffield steel but I don't know if anyone has ever melted some down and analyzed it. You might research this.

Back when I was at technological high school in Brazil (precision mechanics at Swiss-Brazilian SENAI school), silver steel was the name we used to very hard Chrome-Tungsten steel alloy used to make hand-held lathe tool bits. It was not so hard and brittle as the common high speed steel, but ate through 1040, 1075 and 1090 very well. There was no silver in the alloy, but the shade it reflects the light remember the color of silver, more yellowish than bluish.