Thread: Finally! The truth about "Silver Steel"

Originally Posted by izlat

That's weird

I do have chromized razors that keep their bright, and have tough and hard edges... So this part is not surprising.

However, I thought the TI razors which use Silver Steel do stain if you just look at them the wrong way maybe TI uses a special Silver Steel?

Cheers
Ivo

Really, the important part of the passage was that chromium was added to the steel. It makes the steel deep, rather than shallow, hardening. Probably, the TI steel has very high carbon and little chromium...just enough to get the hardening benefit without much in the way of stain resistance. There doesn't seem to be a standard for what is "silver steel", so I'm sure formulations vary.

That ain't the truth.

http://www.shef.ac.uk/hawley/collect...xamples-1.html

COMMENTS - These makers made razors from silver steel and marked them as such, but this one isn't. Other razormakers used silver steel. Messrs Rhodes of The Wicker, Sheffield, wrote a booklet on razors in 1824 having experimented with silver steel. Note that Pearce was using this metal for his razors. The instigator of this metal was Faraday in London, who got Sanderson of West Street, Sheffield to make samples of silver steel on his behalf and no doubt sold the steel to other razormakers.

Faraday was using silver in his steel.

It's true to say that there is no silver used in it's production today, but initially it was developed using silver by Michael Faraday.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_4j...uTflep_ZYXBHXM

Originally Posted by ernestrome

That ain't the truth.

http://www.shef.ac.uk/hawley/collect...xamples-1.html


Faraday was using silver in his steel.

It's true to say that there is no silver used in it's production today, but initially it was developed using silver by Michael Faraday.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_4j...uTflep_ZYXBHXM

It appears from the articles you provided us that while Faraday may have, indeed, experimented with silver in steel, and even had a razor or two made from it, nothing in this article contradicts what I posted. Faraday may have had steel with a bit of silver in it for his experiments, but nothing in the article suggests any other maker who used "silver steel" did so. Faraday may have indeed sold his steel to other razor makers, but there's nothing to say how much was provided, or that any of them actually used his steel. It also doesn't say that Faraday was the developer of anything other than a few alloys he used for experments. I have never heard of Faraday as a major supplier of steel to the cutlery industry. As I've always maintained, "silver steel" is advertising verbiage. While I can understand your misapprehension, one person does not an entire type of steel change. The article, while seeming to infer that Faraday used the steel with silver in it for his razors, does not actually say so. It claims that "occasionally in later life Faraday would present one of his friends with a razor made of his own special steel." This comes after a mention of other alloys which apparently didn't do much. Also, the article explicitly states that silver steel was used for some time in making fenders, but doesn't elucidate whether it was Faraday's version or the chromium-added version (I suspect the latter). I have never seen a metallurgical analysis of "silver steel" which contains any silver. So your statement "that ain't the truth" seems to be inaccurate. Not saying you're wrong, but the information you've provided doesn't seem to contradict my source in any way but the most superficial.

It's possible that some makers actually used silver in their steel...I won't say you're 'wrong', but I would say it's not the norm, nor was it ever. I was talking about "in general" rather than a few isolated cases. I'm sure there's a maker out there who attemped to alloy his steel with potassium to make exploding steel, but it's not the norm. I found these pretty interesting, as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel
http://www.silver-steel.co.uk/SilverSteelBS1407.html (I believe in that analysis the Si is silcon and the S is Sulfur...the sulfur, at least, considered an impurity).

I would think adding actual silver to a steel alloy would be precisely counterproductive in that it would more likely weaken the structure and possibly not add much more corrosion resistance than the chromium.

but that's being said without any "formal" metallurgical expertise... grain o' salt req'd.

A timely post for me. I've been cleaning up a Joseph Elliot "best silver steel" this week. I love the shine but the pitting is some serious work. I'm curious to see whether I can bring my regular steel to a similar polish that the silver steel takes.

- Bob

Some time ago, I went through all the modern metallurgical texts I could find. In today's practices, silver steel shares the same characteristics as O-1 tool steel with slight differences in steel mill's forumlae.

It is quite possible that silver was tested experimentally, although with the seeming ease that it tarnishes alone, I don't know why they would have used it other than "I wonder what this will do?" I know of a present day knifemaker who has "welded" fine silver between layers of steel. It makes for a delightful pattern but unless the steel is the edge it doesn't cut worth much.

It's a good discussion. The more known about the foundations of the industry helps us all.

Just some personal observations to add to this topic.
I owe a silversteel DOVO and a Henckels Friodur that has "finest silberstahl" stamped on the tang.
The Dovo is far from stainless, while the Friodur seems to almost possess the stainless properties from a modern kitchen knife.
The Friodur behaves more resilient on the hone than the DOVO.

There seems to be a clear difference between the alloys of both steels.

Could it be possible that "Silver"steel is just a kind of marketing term, that different razor manufacturers use(d) to lend some of their razors a bit more luster and quality? According to the store where I bough it, the Dovo Silversteel just takes a bit of a nicer polish than their carbon-steel razors.
Maybe "silversteel" just means "slightly more expensive than regular carbon steel" without it being an exact recipe for alloy.

slightly...
Imagine that in 100 years a big meteor impact causes some kind of magnetic storm that worldwide erases all digital data. Another 100 years thereafter someone wants to figure out what the addition "light" means as it was printed on more than half of the food and beverage products in the early 21st century. If that person hopes to find some standardized definition, he could search all his life and still haven't found it.

Just wondering...

Bart.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

It is quite possible that silver was tested experimentally, although with the seeming ease that it tarnishes alone, I don't know why they would have used it other than "I wonder what this will do?"

Mike, thanks for posting - I think you are probably the best versed in metalurgy here.

My speculation is the same - why not try alloying with silver and see what happens. The advantage is that it was very accessible in very pure form. Not sure same was true back then with Cromium - do you have any insight on this?
My impression from previous readings were that the alloying was at 0.02% level, not sure whether that's enough to change the mechanical properties or is it just the looks.
I'm sure that such small fractions could be enough to change the surface chemistry. After all a tiny bit of moisture makes big difference in oxidation/corrosion.