Thread: Stainless Steel

Originally Posted by Eleventh

Nice looking razor!
(BTW-we could've also told you you did well had we known you got it from Joe....)
None of us is going to sell you Pakistani/other junk razors except maybe to scrape gum from your shoes or with some sort of no-shave disclaimer....
John P.

Originally Posted by Eleventh

I have read that 440 stainless should be avoided, but that there is some stainless that is nice and holds an edge for a long time without much maintenance. I was hoping someone could tell me what the "nice" stainless steel is and how to tell it apart. I recently purchased a Solingen Stainless razor and am hoping it falls in the latter category. Thanks.

There is actually nothing wrong with 440 stainless. 440 is used by very respectable knife manufactures ,yes I know a knife and a razor are two different things, Like Buck Knife. The problem is in the forging and tempering. Buck does not advertise that it uses 440 stainless. However, at one point it was known, therefor these second rate manufactures would advertise that they are using this great steel. This in turn has given 440 stainless a bad name. Again the true test of the steel is not entirely the chemical make up, but the heat treatment it has received.

There are also different types of 440 stainless:

(from Wikipedia)
Type 440—a higher grade of cutlery steel, with more carbon in it, which allows for much better edge retention when the steel is heat-treated properly. It can be hardened to around Rockwell 58 hardness, making it one of the hardest stainless steels. Due to its toughness and relatively low cost, most display-only and replica swords or knives are made of 440 stainless. Also known as razor blade steel. Available in four grades: 440A, 440B, 440C, and the uncommon 440F (free machinable). 440A, having the least amount of carbon in it, is the most stain-resistant; 440C, having the most, is the strongest and is usually considered a more desirable choice in knifemaking than 440A except for diving or other salt-water applications.

From what I know, Friodurs are made of 440C stainless.

Shaved with a 7/8 just this morning!

440C has a pretty high tempered hardness up to RC65?
Is 440C a brand or a mixture.

When I read Solingen or Sheffield I think of these as a place.
Are these also standards for steel?

Hitachi makes nice steels.
ATS34, Blue wrappers, white wrappers

What other brands of steel are good for razors?

For scary sharp is harder better? Up to what point?

-Bob

Chander has it correct. Being somewhat of a metallurgist I can tell you that each type of steel (stainless types included) has a solidification (or cooling) curve that tells you roughly what type of steel crystals will form by how rapidly you cool the steel (also known as tempering).

In other words, tempering makes the single largest difference in quality of a finished steel product, after the actual chemical makeup. And since steel is pretty well coded by the amount of carbon and any other metals present, it's pretty easy to know what type you are working with. Whereas in the old days, the purpose of folding steel together, was not to produce damascus or pattern welded steel, but was rather to mix two types to provide a superior carbon steel (high carbon and low carbon steels mixed).

If everything I said was too confusing, just remember: don't buy knives based on the type of steel only, buy them for who makes them. A better tempering process means better finished product, and you can bet that reputable companies do this reliably.

Also some of the questions to Robert above me:

"440C has a pretty high tempered hardness up to RC65?
Is 440C a brand or a mixture."

440C is a type of steel, not a brand, it stands for both the chemical composition as well as the type of crystalline structure that makes it up. In this case it means that it contains a low amount of nickel and higher amounts of chromium, though I can't remember the exact amounts. As Seraphim says above, it's commonly used in high-grade cutlery.

"For scary sharp is harder better? Up to what point?"
In general harder is better for edge retention and sharpness. Up to what point? Well until the steel becomes too brittle that it cracks when tempering, or under a slight amount of pressure. Also keep in mind that the harder steel is, the harder it is to hone. As with most things in life, it's about balance.

Just as a side note...tempering in blacksmithing and bladesmithing is a process that occurs after a hardening phase, to relax tension and soften the steel slightly.

Also, pattern-welding shouldn't be thought of as making a 'superior' material that combines hard and soft. It doesn't really. More often than not it was used to compensate for the relative lack of control they had over the initial steel's chemistry (sadly they could not roll out nice even bars with the standards we have today), and to reduce impurities and inconsistencies in the mix (Japanese tamahagane, despite the hype, is NOT a pure material). It was also used economically in laminate techniques so as to allow very low carbon steel or even iron to be integrated in a relatively benign way to a blade (carbon migration through welding and thermal cycling allows some homogenization of fine layers in a pattern-weld, but not enough to cause extreme changes in a basic laminate) which reduces waste of the more precious high-carbon material.

Just food for thought. Sorry for the

Originally Posted by Eleventh

Your title makes you hard to believe.

What you don't belive me!!

Here's what 440C can do for you. Brings me to tears every time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWLYxlqc3gQ