Thread: Japanese Razors

I just received my first Tosuke as well, honed it up, and the thing is an absolute beast. Now I know what everyone is talking about with the "cuts like butta" simile The first thing I thought as I used it was that it's wicked light. But I have only ever used a Wapi, and I understand those are on the heavier side to begin with. I thought maybe that the blade was so light would cause a problem at first, but the thing is just so sharp/smooth it has no problems!

I tested it both ways... I very much like the idea of sticking to the traditional way of using the razor with only the concave side, but I couldn't resist trying the other side just to see if it shaved equally well, and from what I could gather there was no difference in performance. I'm going to be sticking with the traditional method, however, for my own amusement lol.

I've got one more on the way and am very curious as to the size versus the one I have now. I wanted to be a Tosuke-only shaver, but the familiarity of the heavy Wapi blade might make me hang on to it for a while longer.

Has anyone heard of any other good Japanese razor smiths besides Tosuke and Iwasaki? I know some of those are possibly made by other people as well, but I'm looking to find a couple cheaper razors for friends that want to try out Japanese straights.

The prices on Tosuke (made by him, or not) are going up...so if anyone has ones made by someone else, post where you got it from or the smith's name.

Thanks!

There were many many Japanes straight makers over the years. Our talk about these two is like two guys in Japan talking about western straights and the only names they ever heard were Dovo and TI and think that's it. If you check out the japan Yahoo sites with babelfish help you will see many many other razors up for auction all the time. There is one guy from Japan on Eboy who sells old straights but they are in pretty rough shape.

thebig,

You keep referring to the correct way to do things with respect to the Japanese style razor. Please let us know what these correct methods are for, e.g., sharpening the blade. Droshi indicated what honing method he was using only to be told that it was wrong. Cool. What's wrong about it? You never know, I may want to buy one of those nifty razors and should know how to hone it. Hopefully this is not a Samurai secret only known to those who grab the fiery tamahagane and stroke it to form with their bare hands.

I think he was just referring to me deviating from "correct" form in general. But I could be wrong...

I believe the correct traditional way to hone these is on a natural Japanese stone, using the "washboard" technique with a 3:2 ratio of 3 strokes hollow side (back and forth), 2 strokes wedge side (back and forth). If you want to make a shorter "pass", you just shorten the length of your washboard strokes. With natural stones I believe pressure is always used even up until final finishing, but I don't know for sure.

For me I just went to try to experiment. This was one of the reasons for me purchasing a couple Tosuke razors before I bought an Iwasaki to experiment with. Right now, I'm trying to find some cheaper ones for a couple friends who I have sparked their interest in, but $150+ is too much for them to spend right off on a first razor. I'll check out yahoo auctions...I cruised around babashoten, but the only page I found was the one I already knew about.

Thanks for the tip on where to look...I was quite sure I've seen other vintage razors around, so I knew they existed. But you are right when you say it would be like someone else talking about only DOVO and TI, because they are the only brands in production still (similar to Tosuke and Iwasaki). I'll post if I find anything or secure any more razors in auctions.

Originally Posted by Droshi

I think he was just referring to me deviating from "correct" form in general. But I could be wrong...

I believe the correct traditional way to hone these is on a natural Japanese stone, using the "washboard" technique with a 3:2 ratio of 3 strokes hollow side (back and forth), 2 strokes wedge side (back and forth). If you want to make a shorter "pass", you just shorten the length of your washboard strokes. With natural stones I believe pressure is always used even up until final finishing, but I don't know for sure.

For me I just went to try to experiment. This was one of the reasons for me purchasing a couple Tosuke razors before I bought an Iwasaki to experiment with. Right now, I'm trying to find some cheaper ones for a couple friends who I have sparked their interest in, but $150+ is too much for them to spend right off on a first razor. I'll check out yahoo auctions...I cruised around babashoten, but the only page I found was the one I already knew about.

Thanks for the tip on where to look...I was quite sure I've seen other vintage razors around, so I knew they existed. But you are right when you say it would be like someone else talking about only DOVO and TI, because they are the only brands in production still (similar to Tosuke and Iwasaki). I'll post if I find anything or secure any more razors in auctions.

What is the difference between the Iwasaki and the Tosuke. I've seen the reviews on the Tosuke but nothing on the Iwasaki. These can be bought with the Iwasaki being substantially more expensive. Since you've tried both, can you tell about the difference between the two.

Going to repost my PM to you, incase anyone else has the same question.

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Actually I don't own an Iwasaki (yet), though I do plan to buy one at some point. The differences, as far as I know, are:
(1) Iwasaki razors end up being much harder, either through hardening process, or steel choice. As a result they are more difficult to hone, but diamond pastes should make quick work of them.
(2) Many Tosuke labeled razors are actually not made by Master Inuoe Tosuke, but rather by associates. Whereas I believe Iwasaki razors are always made by either himself or his apprentice only.
(3) Tosuke razors have a rubber grip, and while it isn't that great to look at, it performs very very well when wet. Iwasaki razors are bare metal handles.
(4) In general, because of the greater knowledge of the smith, and because of his fame in Japan...Iwasaki razors are known to be of much higher quality in both the quality of shave, and the ability to take a better edge and hold it longer.

Overall both are great razors, but they are somewhat on different levels, and are reflected by their price points. I happen to think that both razors are worth the money they are normally priced at, and even a bit higher I would pay for the Tosuke razors.

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We'll see how this holds up when I acquire an Iwasaki razor to compare.

I received my Iwasaki from Japan Woodworker about a week ago and finally got it honed up really nicely. I shaved this morning and got the closest shave I've ever done with my own hands. I tried shaving with both sides at first, but then only used the concave side because it clearly cut better. It was like butter!

However, I have no idea of how to properly hold the razor. I pretty much hacked my way through it. Is anyone aware of illustrations or photos or video of someone properly using one of these?

So far as I know there is no "proper" accepted way to hone these exactly. Most original documentation is pretty general, showing the washboard technique on a natural stone with slurry.

Personally I'm learning more and more about honing my Tosukes, they are very particular. And while I can get good results by doing what I've compiled between here and B&B forums, I get much better results by paying more attention to the asymmetrical grind. In other words, I find it's not as important to have the exact 2:3 ratio as much as it is to make sure the wedge side is ground down each pass. Very often with light pressure a burr builds up (on the wedge side) from stroking the hollow side within only 2 back and forth passes. I find that 3-4 passes are necessary on the wedge side to get everything to be in contact with the hone, but the problem is that it could be different for different hones. This leads me to conclude that the uneven ratio is not as much for keeping the razor even, but more for immediate function. I don't think if you use even passes that you would change the razor shape fundamentally, it just won't be as keen an edge as possible. Also I believe finishing on the hollow side gives a smoother edge as compared to finishing your last passes on the wedge side, my theory is that the burr is then aligned so that the hollow side towards your face is the most comfortable. You can hone it the other way, but this is one contributing factor to why you should only use one side against your face, and it does depend on how it's honed.

Once I get my chinese 12k I'm going to compile all my findings into one post that will hopefully be a good resource on how to hone these razors. Right now it seems most of the information available is fragmented and not all that accurate, at least for my razors.

OOPS -- I meant to learn the proper way to hone it while shaving, not honing.