Thread: Japanese Razors

Personally I feel that if you are going to learn to do something or use a tool it should be done the correct way. There are many things that we all do in life for convenience or because its easier. We all here shave with a straight but wouldn't it be easier to use a feather or a DE or a cartridge. We spend all kinds of time advising each other how to properly hone and strop. There are many ways of doing these things and to an extent they all work, some better than others and some will do damage but we all try and do it the right way. Would you use your high dollar kitchen knives to pry something up? Many do. Would you use your straight as a letter opener or shave at a 90 degree angle? Would you strop with major downwards pressure or hone with a 600 mesh diamond hone? No, we all try to do it the right way and I think the traditional japanese razor is designed to be used a certain way and thats just the way it is. Yes you can use it on the convex side and it will shave almost as well however I found it is much less comfortable but of course easier to use. Thats the point with the japanese razor, it requires a whole different skill set to use and thats what makes it challenging to use and your rewarded with the best possible shave. To say well, I just use both sides and its easy is no different than someone saying I'll use a feather, it's easy and it's really a straight anyway and I don't have to learn to strop and hone.

If you hone it equally on both sides you will eventually lose the asymmetrical characteristics and change the geometry. Also as far as the keaness of the razor goes I don't buy the steel type reason because you can buy a damascus type razor or a Livi takeda and you still don't get that kind of keaness. When you grind a razor with equal edges there is a compromise there but when you grind it with the specific intention that only one side is to be used you are engineering the max performance out of it. Many people make the mistake in thinking the japanese razor is really a wedge and of course it is nothing like that.

You know to a Japanese I would bet reading about guys using both sides would be similar to us reading about someone using a western straight at a 90 degree angle. We would laugh it it as we do in posts here.

And that's my editorial for the week.

I don't really see how all those examples are equivalent. Most of them are not as effective as the alternative. To me I see no improvement one way or another between sides. It could be me, my razor or some other reason. But just because something is "supposed" to be a certain way doesn't mean it can't be equally as effective another way. But it does mean that in can be vastly less effective as in your examples as well, my point only being that in this case to me it is not.

Maybe with your razor it's not as comfortable because of the angle difference? I'm also not ruling out the possibility that shaving with only one side might be better and that my face or myself can't detect the difference. I have tried it both ways, and if there's a better way I'll for sure try it, but for me I just don't see the difference. Maybe as my skill at shaving and honing increase I might.

The way I honed my razor was with 3 strokes hollow side, 2 strokes wedge side. At first I went in a washboard style doing 3 forward and 3 backward strokes, then flipping and doing the same thing twice...etc. I found that finish to be ok, but then I did the same 3:2 ratio, except didn't backhone. Basically I did 1 forward hollow stroke, 1 forward wedge, 1 forward hollow, 1 forward wedge, 1 forward hollow...then repeated (so 2 forward hollow strokes end up being together) and kept that same ratio that way. I found doing that vastly improved the edge (with my DMT setup anyway), though maybe with a traditional japanese hone as would normally be used the "washboard" style is much better.

My point with this is also to illustrate how tradition may or may not work for a particular person or setup for whatever reason.

Anyway, again, not saying your wrong, I do believe they were intended to use only one side...I just can't think of a practical reason to not use the other side...only tradition as an answer. Any ideas?

Bit of an update here. I decided to put my razor where my mouth is (figure of speech) and try to shave entirely with the hollow side towards my face this time. I have also further refined my honing technique.

My observations about the shave: it was actually pretty easy to reach most places with just the hollow side. Only inconvenient in a couple places, which I used my left hand to remedy there. I must say...this time I did notice a difference. The shave was a bit more comfortable and because of the angles, some places that I previously usually never had BBS are now BBS.

Although some of this could be attributed to a better honing job....I think it may be some of each. And I'm glad I tried only using one side. As a control experiement next time I will shave with only the wedge side and see if I get any irritation or discomfort, or a less close shave. Except in between I won't hone, only strop. And the time after that I'll try shaving with both sides as I did before and see. Hopefully I'll be able to figure out something, it could be that only in a few places it matters that you use the concave side or something like that.

As to the honing technique, still keeping the 3:2 ratio, I've noticed that being very light on the razor while honing the concave side, and pressing a tad on the wedge side with a "washboard" technique produces a better edge for me. At least this is on my DMT D8EE. Then I finished on 0.25 diamond paste. I haven't yet had the chance to try newsprint, and soon I'll be getting a chromium paddle, and hopefully a chinese 12k, so one of these days I'll make a comprehensive post on honing these types of razors.

My only point here is that there are some things that are intended to be done a certain way and of course you can do them anyway you wish if your satisfied with the result. No problem there. However what I will tell you is that if you use a traditional Japanese straight in the manner you do you will never be able to say you have mastered the razor. I'm not trying to sound like a wise a** or anything like that but its like a kid learning to ride a bycicle with training wheels on but he never takes them off and thinks he has mastered the bike. The training wheels are a crutch enabling him to ride the same way using both sides is a crutch enabling you to use the razor.

I had my first shave with a japanese razor last week (not a tosuke), and its definitely an experience. I shaved only with the concave side...super easy, smooth, comfortable shave on the left side of my face, not so much on the right. Until I went ATG, then it was the opposite.

And thats the thing about Japanese razors...it seems like it'd take an awful lot of practice to be able to shave one side as well as the other, given the different handle position. I dunno if I would ever be able to shave both sides equally well, unless I had two razors, with the concave grind on opposite sides (a "lefty" and a "righty" razor if you will). I still love this thing, and will keep using it, and attempting to get as proficient as possible with it.

I just received my first Tosuke as well, honed it up, and the thing is an absolute beast. Now I know what everyone is talking about with the "cuts like butta" simile The first thing I thought as I used it was that it's wicked light. But I have only ever used a Wapi, and I understand those are on the heavier side to begin with. I thought maybe that the blade was so light would cause a problem at first, but the thing is just so sharp/smooth it has no problems!

I tested it both ways... I very much like the idea of sticking to the traditional way of using the razor with only the concave side, but I couldn't resist trying the other side just to see if it shaved equally well, and from what I could gather there was no difference in performance. I'm going to be sticking with the traditional method, however, for my own amusement lol.

I've got one more on the way and am very curious as to the size versus the one I have now. I wanted to be a Tosuke-only shaver, but the familiarity of the heavy Wapi blade might make me hang on to it for a while longer.

Has anyone heard of any other good Japanese razor smiths besides Tosuke and Iwasaki? I know some of those are possibly made by other people as well, but I'm looking to find a couple cheaper razors for friends that want to try out Japanese straights.

The prices on Tosuke (made by him, or not) are going up...so if anyone has ones made by someone else, post where you got it from or the smith's name.

Thanks!