Thread: Hamburg Ring?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Jimmy,

Entity13 just brought up in chat a razor that has an etching on the blade face which reads "THE HAMBURG RING" but yet on the reverse side on the tang is imprinted "GROUND IN SHEFFIELD"

What do you make of it? It is a Joseph Rodgers, and includes the "ENGLAND" stamp on the observe tang

I don't know beyond the old Hamburg Ring versus Hamburg grind controversy. A controversy in my mind anyhow. What I do know is I would love to have that razor. I googled and found this post on that other forum so maybe mparker would have some input ?

You know, I expect a lot of us have Hamburg Ring type razors of various types: here's mine, acquired yesterday


13/16 Electric Razor brand round point. That longitudinal stiffener is just about perceptible if you're looking for it. This one will need a little work, and I'm tempted to upgrade the scales: they're slightly warped and the wedge is a disgrace.

I'd be interested to see more examples of this style of razor, gentlemen.

Here's mine, pic thanks to Buddel who made the handle.

Originally Posted by ghart

Here's mine, pic thanks to Buddel who made the handle.

That is an absolutely stunning razor! Congrats on the find and the beautiful scales to go with.

not to change the subject but is it the same as "Silver Ring"?like this?sorry havent taken any pics after I cleaned it up yet.

I believe the "Hamburg Ring" was a type of grinding machine that used two grinding wheels to form the hollow. I think the tech people at Norton or the other grinding wheel companies could shed some light on the subject. I think it was a point of pride for the various manufacturers to let people know they had a "Hamburg Ring" grinding machine.

Im bumping this Thread to ask if anyone has confirmed some of the things stated in this thread. I am very interested. The theories so far is that the hamburg ring refers to the razor companies who used hamburg steel. were they positioned in a ring around hamburg? ... or that the hamburg ring refers to type of grinding machine used as stated above.

Can anyone shine some more light on "the hamburg ring"?

There are people who maintain that they know the answer, and others who say that it is open to conjecture. In the absence of anything from the 'horses mouth' or in black and white or patent law, I suppose it can only be conjecture...

I have read somewhere that the 'hamburg grind' refers to the type of hollow with the stiffening belly just before the second hollowing immediately above the bevel - perhaps that got confused with 'hamburg ring' at some point. The first extreme hollow grinding originated in Germany "the witch" (or 'Hexe' in german, built by C F Ern in 1893) and used a double-wheeled grinding machine. At that time a lot of english blades and steel were sent there to be ground as they had the leading edge technology, so 'Ground in Germany' (or Hamburg) acquired a certain cachet.

Full hollow ground blades make quite a bit of noise in use, and extra hollow ground blades were said to ring or 'sing' - hence the equivalent 'singing blade' for an extra hollow ground razor. Why Hamburg became synonymous with the words 'grind' and 'ring' rather than Solingen - which is about 250 miles away - is a bit obscure, but could be explained by the fact that in the 19th century it was europes third largest port and was already famed and powerful - it was one of the last three cities left in the mighty Hanseatic League before its final collapse in 1862 and at the beginning of the 20th century it became a gateway for travel to america and home of the worlds largest transatlantic shipping company. It was Germany's most important industrial centre, and as such was very heavily bombed in WW2. But - although there were certainly a lot of razor makers in Hamburg, there were more in Solingen and its environs.

Some refer to a 'ring of cities' around Hamburg, which seems a bit like clutching at straws to me and merely an attempt to justify the name by some sort of back derivation, especially when we consider that C. F. Ern set up in Solingen Wald some 20 years before introducing the double-grinding machine - in Solingen, not Hamburg.

The technology didn't stay in Germany though - a lot of razors were ground in Sheffield and even english ones that were ground in Germany at some point in their history ended up being ground in Sheffield as Sheffield gained supremacy over Solingen.

This gave rise to a few anomalies, like blades with 'Ground in Sheffield' on the tang and "Hamburg Ring' on the blade. Attempts were made to cash-in on the popular term, such as "The Sheffield Ring," "The True Ring," "The Silver Ring," and others. The razor with "The True Ring" on it spells it out for me. It links in the musical sound of the 'singing' razor with the symbol/metaphor/expression of a 'bell ringing true' which means that it has the quality of correctness. In old days most people could not afford timepieces, and a bell was rung by a clocktower on the hour as a 'master reference.' Perhaps Hamburg was the master reference in this respect of blade forging.

However, all this is just fancy. The most we can draw from the scant facts we have is that 'Hamburg Ring' does not refer to a ring of cities.

Incidentally, don't think that this argument applies only to straight razors:



On the liner there is a picture of a two-man team forging steel on an anvil. Typical steel anvils ring like a bell. So much so that Richard Wagner used 18 of them in the Das Rheingold scene from Der Ring des Nibelungen - all tuned in octaves! Imagine the sound of a city full of steel forgers and blacksmiths - the ringing must have been intolerable! Perhaps another clue to the meaning..... perhaps not.

Regards,
Neil

Just stumbled across this thread and will sow a bit more confusion: the noun 'Ring' in German has a number of meanings; the first one is simply a circle shape, in that sense it's used for instance when talking about a wedding band but also the ringroad around a city. Then it's used to designate a boxing ring and thirdly, although this is nowadays archaic but was very much used 40 and more years ago, 'Ring' also means an association of people sharing a common goal or interest, 'club' in English. In the '20s and the interbellum there existed in Germany a wide range of all kinds of such clubs, associations.... A full explanation would take too long but when 'Ring' was used in that sense it mostly designated an association or club involved in physical activity (boxing, cyclism...). In everyday use the term 'Ring' when talking about a cub carried a certain connotation as being more applicable to blue collar workers and even going as far as approaching the english 'gang'. It's hard to accurately explain as to my knowledge there's no english equivalent that captures the entire meaning.

Anyway, I doubt that this helps a lot but one never knows.

That is very interesting, Xenophon, and it may well be a contributing factor.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, blades in german is 'klingen' and 'klingend' also means 'ringing' so we might have the ringing quality of a thinly ground blade right there, too.

Regards,
Neil