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  1. #1
    The Hurdy Gurdy Man thebigspendur's Avatar
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    Default So what is a custom razor?

    Well we all know when you contract with someone to make a razor to your specs or buy a one of a kind razor that's a custom razor. However what inquiring minds want to know is when you put down the big bucks for a made to order razor how important is it to you that the guy who puts his name or initials on the razor actually made the thing either in whole or in part and which part?

    From what I understand Tim Zowada is on the end where he does it all from metal fabrication to scale manufacture and Livi is next in that he buys the steel ingots and cuts his own blanks and does everything else from that point. The other guys I don't know but if someone got the blanks ready made and sent them out for grinding and basically did the scales and final honing and some blade decoration would that be ok by you or would you expect the maker to have a certain involvement in the whole process. Or for that matter would the price you pay cause you to expect the maker to have more involvement so say a $300 custom wouldn't need that degree of involvememnt where a $1200 razor would?

    Also at the same point does the mere fact that a razor is a unique piece make it a custom or does the concept of custom require a certain level of craftmanship. So if Zeepk starts making custom razors for $75.00 well you know...
    No matter how many men you kill you can't kill your successor-Emperor Nero

  2. #2
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    one thing first
    tim is one hell of a maker and i cant say 100% but he most likely does not smelt his own L6 and O1 that he makes his Damascus steel with so the mono steel blades he does comes in bars much like i get or any other maker would buy.

    i am planning on forging out some bars of Damascus for knife and razor use but till i do my mono steel will come shipped in bar or rod stock

    i like to say that short of growing the trees and smelting the steel i make the whole blade including the heat treat and cryo
    now i have a order for coming together for whale bone and scrim that the scriming will be done out of house. only thing worse then my spelling and typing is my hand writing.

  3. #3
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    I can only relate the whole custom razor market the same way I see the Rifle game

    Stock rifle off the shelf = Un-sharpened razor in decent shape
    Accurized Rifle = Restored/ New Shave ready razor
    Semi-custom Rifle = Restored shave ready rescaled razor
    Full custom Rifle = New production steel newly scaled razor
    Hand made Rifle = Hand Made razor
    Rather simple minded of me, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it
    I guess I see razors and weapons in the same light... Hmmmmmm maybe that's why I like them both so much

  4. #4
    There is no charge for Awesomeness Jimbo's Avatar
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    To me a custom razor is any razor that you order or create to your own specifications.

    That could involve wanting a Helji No. 32 blade fitted out with a set of Buffalo horn scales. Or it could involve getting someone to smelt the steel, shape it however you want, temper it with the blood of heathens, grind it to a quarter hollow, embed it with rhinestones, and scale it with prehistoric mosquitoes embedded in amber.... (hmmmm, I think I need to talk to Joe...).

    James.
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  5. #5
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    The idea for me is that a custom razor is one made by an artisan or artisans in their respective fields of excellence, working with raw, useless materials to create a tool that exceeds the performance of what is readily available.

    If I ever commission one, it will be an 8/8 of hand smelted or reduced high carbon steel, with a traditional shape, 1/4 hollow grind, absolutely flawless mirror finish, differential heat treat and temper on the higher side of the general razor populace, something modest but classy for scale material, three pins, jimps, and a dedicated box of the same scale material and metal for trim. And a stipulation that none of the work on any piece may be performed with a power tool (there's something romantic about a truly handmade piece of functional art).

    One can dream, right?

  6. #6
    Junior Honemeister Mike_ratliff's Avatar
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    Anything not production is custom, weither a custom is worth the $$$ is dependent on the level of craftsmanship, the design, quality, etc...
    A custom zeepk is still a zeepk, but if the "custom" ones shave well, they might be worth $75?(I doubt it)

    With any New razor, the more you pay for it, the more you are going to nit pick the details.
    If I pay $1000 for a Zowada, I will be expecting a flawless razor, If I pay $300 for a Chandler, I will expect a good looking great shaving razor, with minor anomalies that will not affect the function or appearance of the razor. (No offense Joe) If Joe produces a flawless razor, for $300, Great for me, but at that price range, I'm not going to examine the work under a microscope.
    I would still expect higher quality from these custom razors than a $200 TI or Dovo.

    You also have to consider what you are ordering into the equation. The fit and finish of the razor is only part of the production cost.
    Zowada razors are worth the price because he does all of the manufacturing himself. If I was able to get a Damascus razor blank, and just polish and hone it, It may look comparable to a Zowada(yeah right) but I didn't put the work into it that Tim does.
    In other words it is worth paying more if you know the work really was done by a master, rather than a machined factory blank.
    To me it's worth paying $$ for a Williams because i know he's at home pounding out my razor by hand.

    The final word on value is not so easy, because it's whatever people are willing to spend... If I start making customs, and charging $10,000... It will not be long before my prices drop to a level that the market will support.
    Each maker charges what the market deems his razors are worth. as soon as they breach that level, their sales will drop, and they will adjust prices, or spend more time on each razor, to bring quality and the market value of their razors up..
    I don't think most of the makers make what they should for the time involved. Be greatful they don't charge by the hour like plumbers do...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Steelforge's Avatar
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    I think I see what you're getting at Mike.

    For me a custom is anything not off the shelf, with some hand made element to it.

    Obviously there is a huge scale in the custom world, at the bottom end someone buys a Polish Wapi and has custom horn scales put on it. Midway might be something like a Maestro Livi, and top end would be something from Tim.

    I've owned a few customs. Of the 3 Maestro's I owned, all had very minor defects with them. Things like, the first was not shave ready and needed a fair amount of honing, one had a tiny sharp burr on the end of the blade which would cut into the strop when I stropped. All 3 had uneven scales, with one side being thicker than the other. But at that price point ($500 ish) all these things were acceptable to me, since they were very minor and could be easily rectified by me without having to be sent back.

    The RW I owned was basically perfect when it arrived, but needed a bit of a clean. Again, not a big problem, so not worth even mentioning to the vendor IMO.

    I have a TZ on the way at the moment, so I'm kinda hoping/expecting it will be far more meticulously finished - seeing as it retails at a might higher price point.

    By the way, this is not a dig at anyone's quality control, if I had a serious problem with a custom I'd surely complain and expect to have it fixed, that hasn't been necessary to date.

  8. #8
    Junior Honemeister Mike_ratliff's Avatar
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    Exactly my point...
    Obviously there is a huge scale in the custom world, at the bottom end someone buys a Polish Wapi and has custom horn scales put on it. Midway might be something like a Maestro Livi, and top end would be something from Tim.
    someone could put pine scales on a Wapi, and it would be custom, I wouldn't pay much for it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's had modifications to improve it's appearance and function.
    although I would conside a modified Wapi to be customized and not a real custom... unless the Wapi was a regrind...

    Part of the custom is the name of the maker... I want that TZ or Livi to be displayed on my razors...
    If I buy a TZ, and grind the name off of it, and etch my name there instead how much is it worth? Even if I do the alteration flawlessly, and not even Tim can tell where his work ends and my alteration begins... How much value is lost? 70% 80%?


    I have 2 custom handled razors in my collection, a Williams Kudu horn handled Froidur, and a Wacker Buffalo horn handled Dorko. The Wacker could pass for factory, in fact it is absolutely perfect.
    The Williams has minor imperfections in the horn, but nature made these. It's a good looking rugged monster of a razor, and the Kudu finishes it. not to mention it's perfect balance.
    I like them both.
    I recently ordered another Williams, 8/8 HCS mirror polish 1/2 hollow w/spanish point or barber's notch, filework and jimping with a polished natural giraffe bone handle. When he asked me if I had any pattern in mind for the file work, or anything else I asked him to think elegant and classy, and have fun. What's it going to look like? I haven't the foggiest, but I'm sure it's going to be cool.
    Do I expect it to be flawless? not really, I don't want any major flaws, but It's being hand forged, hammered and ground. I expect it to look good and shave equally well. If there are minor marks left over from it's creation, I'm not going to be surprised or upset.



    And yes the waiting is killing me... My order was placed January 31st.
    LoL, I'm fighting of a strong urge to send him a daily Email asking "Is it done yet?
    Last edited by Mike_ratliff; 04-18-2008 at 07:11 AM.

  9. #9
    I'm a Shaaarrrk! Chady's Avatar
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    Ah fudge my order with him was not placed till May I think it was, late at that.

    I do hope you get yours soon then

  10. #10
    Senior Member Steelforge's Avatar
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    According to an email I had from Robert about 2 weeks ago, his current leadtime is approx 4 months. That speaks volumes in itsself, he obvoiusly has lots of people lining up to buy razors.

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