Thread: Steels

Okay total newb q I know. I was looking at some of the pieces of art on SRD yesterday (Drools) & found myself wondering. What exactly is Damascus steel, why does it look like it has tiger stripes in it & how much better than carbon steel is it? Oh & where the blazes can I get one without the Good Lady having a meltdown??

Damascus steel is a generic term that is used to describe steel made by welding layers of different alloys together. Typically a maker would stack six to 20 pieces of two or more different steel, say a high-carbon simple steel and a tool steel, in alternating layers. Then they go into the forge and get welded and hammered together. The maker then cuts the billet in the middle, folds it in half, and rewelds. This process is repeated several times, and the layers increase exponentially. After this, the billet may be twisted, ground, forged or drilled to create different patterns in the layers. The patterns are created by the different chemical compositions of the steels, and they are brought out at the end by etching the steel with acid. One steel will etch more deeply than the other, resulting in a dark-light alternating pattern.

Another name for "damascus" is pattern-welded, which I think is more appropriate, if less sexy.

Any damascus used for razors will be high-carbon steel, and it won't technically be any better than regular high-carbon steel. On his website, Tim Zowada states that he uses O1 and L6, which are common tool steels. They are excellent steels, but not unusual ones. However, if a maker is using damascus, he probably has a good handle on the process of working with and heat-treating steel. If that's the case, then his blades will be excellent. The performance comes from the maker's skill, though, not the steel.

As for how to keep the missus from killing you, I can't help you there. Pattern-welded blades are expensive because the process of making the steel is labor-intensive and takes many hours. Buying ready-made damascus will set you back $10 or $15 per inch or more. A typical razor uses 6 inches of steel. Do the math.

Josh

What you call damascus is pattern welded steel.
It's a billet of 2 different steels, welded together, which is then folded / twisted and welded again and again.

When the steel is shaped, hardened and then etched, the etching works differently on the 2 steels, which makes for the various patterns.

You can get pattern welded razors from most custom razor makers, but forget about the lady not having a meltdown, as these will set you back a significant amound of money. I have none myself, but you're looking at 500 to 1000$.

'real' damascus as it was made in the olden days is actually wootz steel, which is steel that is melted in a crucible (there is more to it than that of course) and then allowed to cool off. Because of the inclusion of trace alloy elements, dendritic trails grown in the steel.
Dow a forum search for 'wootz' in all posts by Mike Blue and you will get a very good explanation.

Both TI and Joe Chandler make wootz razors. Classic has the black-scaled 5/8 TI in stock (or did last time I checked), and Joe has posted photos of at least one of his wootz creations. I don't know much about Joe's version, but there are several of us around here with experience with the TI wootz razor.

The wootz razors aren't pattern-welded. The process for making the wootz steel is fairly primitive and results in big chunks of carbide-rich steel mixed in with standard high-carbon steel in the buttons that come out of the crucible, so they develop a similar striped pattern just from hammering the buttons out into shape. As with pattern-welded steel, you have to etch the surface to reveal the pattern.

Another steel that develops damascene patterns is Tamahagane, which is the stuff the famous samurai swords were made of. Maestro Livi makes razors with Tamahagane that he gets from the famous Takeda steelmaking family in Japan, as well as pattern-welded razors made from Damasteel and his friend Silvano. Like damascus and wootz razors, they aren't cheap. Tamahagane typically isn't etched to bring out the pattern, but the pattern shows up once the sword is polished using traditional methods. On a razor, regular exposure to the alkaline lather is enough to bring out the pattern.

Originally Posted by Spike J

Okay total newb q I know. I was looking at some of the pieces of art on SRD yesterday (Drools) & found myself wondering. What exactly is Damascus steel, why does it look like it has tiger stripes in it & how much better than carbon steel is it? Oh & where the blazes can I get one without the Good Lady having a meltdown??

As others have said, what is usually referred to today as "Damascus" steel is actually patterned welded steel, and there are other steel making process that produce a similar stripped pattern. The making of true Damascus steel is a lost art, and no one knows exactly how it was produced. One intersting point is that while pattern welded steel produces a striped pattern, Damascus steel - if we are to believe contemporary accounts - had a swirled pattern.

Wootz produces a much less regular pattern because the different layers come from chunks of different quality steel in the button. These are flattened out and mangled during forging to make a stripey swirley pattern, but they are still smaller and less regular than the big blocks of steel used to make pattern-welded steel. You can see examples of wootz razors here and here on the classic shaving website, and examples of pattern-welded steel here and here. Also if you look at this photo of a Livi/Takeda razor you can see damascening in the Tamahagane steel used in the blade.

Edit: Oh and I found several photos of a Joe Chandler razor made of wootz here that also show off the natural graining of wootz damascus.

I've seen welded steel that looked pretty close to wootz damascus, that was made with high carbon steel cables and ball bearings forged into a solid mass and folded several times. But the similarity is purely aesthetic - wootz doesn't need the laborious folding process to achieve that look - it happens naturally because of the internal structure of the steel.

Many thanks to all you chaps. You've been most informative & given me much food for thought & research. Dropping "Damascus" into a search brings up the Syrian Tourist Boards & travel agents
The pix have been a huge help with the Good Lady. She has a similar love of sharp & shinies to me & when she saw Mr Chandler's masterpieces, she was drooling too Just have to save the pennies & hope the £ stays strong....