Thread: Is ball steel really from old anchor chain?

Originally Posted by zenshaver

Very interesting. Of course, I would want the best steel possible. As long as my wallet could handle it.

The tatara project makes me want to become an apprentice blacksmith. I wonder if iwasaki will take some new apprentices.

Many steels are entirely indistinguishable from one another in practical usage (and especially in an application like a razor where the steel is not being pushed to it's performance limit like a sword would be). At some point you are paying for a status symbol, not a superior cutting tool.

IIrc Leon Kapp The Craft of the Japanese Sword translates tama as jewel, and So at japan-tool does as well. I think the best translation of tamahagane is tamahagane. This leaves no doubt what one is speaking of.

I asked Iida-san to check with his wholeseller; neither had heard of anything refered to as ball steel or ball bearing stell being used in anything. He shaves with a western style razor made by Mizuochi-san. When checking to see if any were still available, too bad he didn't ask directly, but he didn't. And sadly they don't make any more western straights.

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There are some good online articles discussing the use of nanbantetsu (foreign steel) in traditional swords. It was at the time well received. The utilization of modern steel mixed into the alotment of tamahagane is certainly frowned upon hich is not to say that it doesn't happen.

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Then there are some tool smiths that have their own special blends made up for them, or have reserves made in their father's time, or use some of the old antique steels imported 50-100 years ago.

I have one tamahagane tool, a kiridashi, that I use now almost exclusively for leather work as I keep on chipping the edge. hopefully it will eventually be sharpened back enough and quit that annoyance. I also have a swedish steel plane made by a smith well known for working in that material and it is really good stuff.

Originally Posted by kevint

IIrc Leon Kapp The Craft of the Japanese Sword translates tama as jewel, and So at japan-tool does as well. I think the best translation of tamahagane is tamahagane. This leaves no doubt what one is speaking of.

Translating it as jewel steel might have been the intended/original purpose. You are right though, it should be left as Tamahagane, but foreigners just have to have everything Japanese, translated into English, and some get very agitated if a word can't be translated.

I suppose it is easy to get caught up in the mystery of it all and get something that is more flashy than practical. Especially, if it is from the mysterious orient.I guess I am a sucker for this stuff.I have a kiradashi I have been using for chipping away at the bad spots on my windowframe in my house. I don't think it is tamhagane though. it is welded steel though.I know it is not its intended purpose but it works good.

I remember reading that legendary knifemaker William Scagel used ball bearing steel for some of his blades and googled same. The only thing useful I came up with was this quote from knifemaker Ed Fowler's catalog,"The Ed Fowler Steel My steel of choice is hand forged 52100 steel, the steel of ball bearings. Based upon extensive comparison shop testing and field evaluation I believe that when carefully forged and heat treated, this is the most versatile and dependable steel available to the knife industry.

I can live with Old School's kanji study. That is also a likely explanation for the source of the ball reference. Occasionally during the smelting process, one finds round balls of steel (usually fairly small, less than 1.0 cm) that turned liquid but did not attach to the forming bloom. These round balls tend to be very good quality steel material from this type of process.

Tool and razor makers will have some access to the tamahagane made for swords. I don't think as regularly as the sword smiths. It's a well regulated material.

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

That first post at the Japanese woodworking forum makes a distinction between steel and iron, but it's not as clear as it could be.

Iron, or wrought iron as is usually the case, is mostly pure elemental iron (Fe) with some impurities and slag. It is very soft, malleable, and doesn't harden like steel does.

ALso true wrought iron is pretty hard to come by as it has not been seriously manufactured in a long time. But the fibers of slag that are in it produce some useful properties.

Not at all apropraite for a razor, but it can reduce corrosion and when it breaks it breaks something like bread dough and not the sharp cracks you get in even the lowest carbon steels.

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Many steels are entirely indistinguishable from one another in practical usage (and especially in an application like a razor where the steel is not being pushed to it's performance limit like a sword would be). At some point you are paying for a status symbol, not a superior cutting tool.

And honnestly I think that this level is pretty low. I have wondered exactly when in price the increase in the price of razors had little to do with real edge quality, and much more about aesthetics.

Not that the hand made razors aren't incredibly attractive, but I suspect that in terms of real edge quality you could get there for relatively little money. But there is not enough of a market to really mass produce high quality straight razors.

here's another good tale of the tatara

Tale of the Tatara : The Kera-oshi Method

"The best quality parts selected from the resulting kera are called tama-hagane(“jewel steel”). The best quality parts selected from the resulting kera are called tama-hagane(“jewel steel”). "

Great article. Someone must really be dedicated to lose his sight just to take care of the tatara. No wonder tamahagane is so precious. It takes an awful lot of effort and sacrifice to make it.WOW.