Thread: Possible Heresy...

The balance will be horrible, and it will be almost unusable.


The Japanese style has a pretty weighty handle, which makes grasping it and using it possible without scales.

When you strop a scale-less blade all the pressure will be on your fingers. Not only will it be tiring but you will risk losing control of the blade and possibly losing a finger.

Wow, are they really that vital?

But, if the scales are so important for balance, why is it ok to rescale razors with all kinds of different materials and not mess up the balance? The scales on my DA, for example, are incredibly thin plastic--I would say they couldn't be more than 5 grams, how could they balance the steel of the blade? Compare this to a Wapi, with stainless steel scales...I'm just surprised that the blade is that delicately balanced.

I have never quite understood all this talk of balance! I have an 8/8's 1/4 hollow W&B with no scales that I used for many years to touch up my shave with no problems! I also have a traditional Japanese straight with a 5/8 to 6/8 blade with the tiniest daintyest handle I have seen! It was made this way on purpose!
I have never used either for a full shave, but where I have used them, I find no problem!

I don't think blades are so delicately balanced so much as we pay way to close attention to something so unimportant in my book! In other words, I think we we've gotten a little too prissy!

Originally Posted by JMS

I have never quite understood all this talk of balance! I have an 8/8's 1/4 hollow W&B with no scales that I used for many years to touch up my shave with no problems! I also have a traditional Japanese straight with a 5/8 to 6/8 blade with the tiniest daintyest handle I have seen! It was made this way on purpose!
I have never used either for a full shave, but where I have used them, I find no problem!

I don't think blades are so delicately balanced so much as we pay way to close attention to something so unimportant in my book! In other words, I think we we've gotten a little too prissy!

So, why haven't you used that scaleless razor for an entire shave, hmmm. Methinks that for touchups it may be fine. Heck for touchups a Mach 3, or Fusion is fine, but I refuse to have an entire shave with one of those things any longer either!

The Japanese razor with the dainty handle: I've seen and held one of these too. I didn't buy it, as the balance felt bad to me. The difference in the case of the dainty handled Japanese razor and a scaleless western style razor is that you can wrap your fingers around the long dainty handle, but not so much the shorter tang of the western style one.

I just happen to have at my desk here a set of run of the mill, cheap plastic scales. I weighed them--15 grams. They are also approx 14cm long. If you apply Pythagoras' theory, throw in some triginometry, Newton foot pounds (even though I made the measurements in metric!), some fancy equations on the chalkboard, and some hand waving arguments, you will see that they do indeed do quite a bit to balance a razor.

I laso have a set of Wapi stainless scales: 25grams.

Or try this very simple test:

With the razor either closed, or without scales, try to balance it at the tang with on your finger?

--How'd that work out for you?

OK, pick the razor up off of the ground....now open the scales up and try again.

My comp crashed in the middle of my last post...

Here are some shots of my experiment (no pics of the razor falling to the ground under the first test...)

The scales wide open I agree is not a real world balance test, but the scales open as you would have them during a shave I do believe is valid. It simply shifts the balance point up to the tang nearest the heel of the blade, as opposed to at the pivot (it's those Newton foot pounds I tell ya!)


Bottom line--sure, you can shave scaleless. I retract my comment about the razor being almost unuseable. It will certainly be useable, just not my cup of green tea.

I'm in the scales matter camp. I have a 6/8 THessenBruch that my wife overpaid for at a flea market. Shaves great. In it's original scales which were too light in my view, it shaved well but ddin't feel right. They had degraded to the point they were properly counterbalancing. I ripped off the scales after I warped them trying to clear them in boiling water (don't do that by the way), and did find the scale-less blade easy to hone and strop, and I shaved with it a couple times that way and it was ok, but definitely needed scales. I got some cheapo too light dovo scales, again, worked fine but tthe blade was too heavey for the scales and I could tell. Don't get me wrong, it worked fine, and in fact the fact that the blade was too heavy in some ways focused my technique because the blade was realy leading the way, but it felt like I was overcompensating. Cannonfodder then put the blade in a old but really nice and big set of large plastic scales that he had left over, and it makes a big difference. The scales balance out the blade, and the experience is smoother. I don't feel like I have to consciously keep the blade level like I do in overmatched light scales.

I had a W&B recalsd, and it definitely feels different in the custom scales than it did in the original hone - good before and after, but the weight of the scales clearly affects the technique and feel.

So I think scales play a vital role in balancing the blade - you can do it either way, but if the scales don't balance it then you have to with your grip and technicque.

Totally agree with Papabull.

Scales have a very sophisticated design developed over many years. Some razors are balanced much more finely than others. Lead or pewter was used as the balancing weight because they are soft metals which could be easily shaved of weight to achieve the correct balance.

Most importantly, scales balance the razor in the hand whilst shaving. Just a gentle touch with the thumb will swing the blade effortlessly towards or away from the skin. When you hold a razor, you can tell instantly if it is well balanced or not. I do not know how the manufacturers weighted the scales other than by hand but I do know its not by chance that some razors are superbly balanced.

High quality razors are just a delight to hold and use. You don't have to grip them, they balance in the hand and the natural shaving position perfectly. Whatever the blade size, a good razor is always complemented by a balancing set of hand weighted scales.

Does it matter. Well its like the difference between a fine writing instrument or a bic biro They both work but the one is much more pleasant experience to use than the other.

I remember my Mother would always check new cutlery by checking the balance on a fork. She would say, they all know how to balance the knife, always check the fork or a spoon and that always sorts the men from the boys.

It's the same with a good razor. It should balance in the hand whilst shaving without you having to even think about it.

IMHO if your razor doesn't do this, you are missing a trick.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

So, why haven't you used that scaleless razor for an entire shave, hmmm. Methinks that for touchups it may be fine. Heck for touchups a Mach 3, or Fusion is fine, but I refuse to have an entire shave with one of those things any longer either!

It just never occurred to me to use it for a full shave!

Yes, you are insane. But I digress, I am simply trying to be disagreeable on a personal level with someone I don’t even know.

As far as the scale-less razor question, I’ve wondered about that same question myself. Most of the time my scales end up straight in line with the blade and sort of clumsy to grasp. I ‘choke up’ to where the scale is skinny and rarely grasp past the end of the tang. When I really need some fine control my fingers slide up on either side of the blade itself. So I too look at Japanese blades with interest.

I’ve been thinking that a few wraps of duct tape would transform a scale free tang into a custom thickness and less slippery and OOOH so attractive. The price would certainly be right for experimentation.

Why I have not just gone and done this, I don’t know. Probably the same reason I have not just gone and found a beautiful, rich wife, or won one of those pesky Power Ball lotteries. Just lazy.