Thread: Shave-Readiness and ATG

I have many razors that shave beautifully WTG and XTG but I've never had a razor that didn't pull even a little bit when I tried to shave ATG. I know that everyone's definition of shave-ready is different because each person's skin reacts differently to an edge. I have a specific question though: can a razor be classified as shave-ready if it can't comfortably shave ATG?

EDIT: I just realized that this may be in the wrong forum. Sorry.

Just my opinion and experience. I have razors honed by Lynn and other honemiesters as well as my own. I can go ATG in some areas and not in others regardless of who honed the razor. One example being from Lynn's DVD. He comes up from under his chin and goes right on up to the bottom of his lower lip.

I cannot do this nor can I go ATG on my upper lip as Xman does, not with one hand or two. I have tried repeatedly. My conclusion is that either it is a technique issue and I need to improve or my skin/whiskers are different then theirs. My cheeks and neck ATG is no problem.

I'd say that a razor should be able to shave against the grain if desired. With adequate prep, it should be able to do so with relative comfort keeping in mind:

1) Skin type - Some skin types are way too sensitive for against the grain shaving regardless of how sharp the razor.

2) Even barbers were advised not to shave against the grain ("close shave") unless specifically requested by the customer. This because of the tendency for a close shave to result in irritation, ingrown hairs, and an otherwise negative outcome. Barbers generally believed that a one pass "once over" shave was the hallmark of a skilled barbershop shave and should be sufficient.

I can shave against the grain with my razors, and do so on certain parts (under my lower lip for example - an upward stroke is the way it's taught in barber texts), but generally avoid ATG for the reasons I wrote about above.


Scott

I'd say aim to do whatever you best razor can do. If none of your razors can go ATG without pulling (even those you sent out to be honed), then it may not be reasonable to aim for ATG without pulling.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Just my opinion and experience. I have razors honed by Lynn and other honemiesters as well as my own. I can go ATG in some areas and not in others regardless of who honed the razor. One example being from Lynn's DVD. He comes up from under his chin and goes right on up to the bottom of his lower lip.

That's the first thing I think of as well: watching Lynn do it so comfortably on his DVD.

Originally Posted by honedright

2) Even barbers were advised not to shave against the grain ("close shave") unless specifically requested by the customer. This because of the tendency for a close shave to result in irritation, ingrown hairs, and an otherwise negative outcome. Barbers generally believed that a one pass "once over" shave was the hallmark of a skilled barbershop shave and should be sufficient.

Scott

I usually go for the XTG passes because they preclude me from dealing with irritation and still get me BBS. However, it'd be nice to be able to make one ATG pass in one full swoop.

When you say pulling do you mean painful pulling? Or just the painless sensation of the razor engaging the beard? If you are experiencing painful pulling, the razor needs more work. Either honing, stropping or both. Or, you are not prepping the beard enough. And it could be all, or a combination of the above.


Scott

The question raises MORE questions. IMO,I use 2 things to judge my edges prior to shaving. I use a reasonably cheap microscope at 40X to monitor the edge. And when I finish I rely on the HHT. I know many-including myself have claimed this was simply a parlor trick-but I have found that: 1) If the edge looks uniform and smooth and the razor passes the HHT EASILY- along its full length- ONLY then will I shave test it.

As of late, following these rules ALL my razors are capable of shaving ATG with NO irritation-and for over 20 years of Str8 shaving-this has always been a problem. Now, I have realized my main problem was a razor simply not up to the task.

Pulling- or the sensation of the razor cutting the whiskers can sometimes be confused. With a VERY coarse beard I can always sense the razor cutting through the whiskers. IMO, "pulling" is an unpleasant and sometimes painful sensation. And IF you find this sensation uncomfortable-ESPECIALLY ATG- I would conclude that the razor isn't sharp enough.

Even with a very hasty prep-I rarely EVER get ANY razor burn and can go ATG on my neck which years ago would have left me hurting for days.IMO, a TRULY shave ready razor is one that will shave ATG without irritation. For the longest time- I concluded that NO razor could give me a comfortable shave ATG-but after really working on honing and taking my edges far beyond what they have been in the past,I realized ATG requires 2 things. 1)Good technique 2) a truly keen refined edge.

I agree perfectly with LT.Arclight in his post. The HHT works with MY beard hair and if it will pass off the finish hone then its usaly awsome after a good stroping. I have a full beard so being its cutting the same hair its just a guide I use. I could see that with the hundreds or even thousands of varying steels and techniques it may not ways be reliable. But it seems to work with my hair/hone combo. If I go ATG first pass off the strop after good prep and 3-4 days growth its the best ATG for me anyway. But every feels diffrent on those things.

Matt

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I'd say aim to do whatever you best razor can do. If none of your razors can go ATG without pulling (even those you sent out to be honed), then it may not be reasonable to aim for ATG without pulling.

Well, I can go ATG after clippering my growth with my mach 5 with no pull at all. So hopefully I can get my straight to do that...

Originally Posted by stdreb27

Well, I can go ATG after clippering my growth with my mach 5 with no pull at all. So hopefully I can get my straight to do that...

If a cartridge razor pulls, all that happens is that skin is stretched. It remains flat against the cartridge because the cartridge is also flat and being held against the face. Eventually the stretching generates enough force for the hair to be cut and the stretched skin will snap back in place, whooshing over all those blades at once, leading either to a very close shave or irritation or both. That's my theory.

I guess to stop a straight from catching you really have to stretch the skin so the blade will cut hairs before it can stretch the skin any more. It follows that the sharper the blade, the less you need to stretch.