Thread: Extremely disappointed in new, honed TI

I own a TI 5/8's Eagle Brand "Singing" full hollow. It is a different animal from my other full hollow razors. What I've found is that the TI prefers firmer pressure during initial stropping and then a few lighter strokes.


Scott

I like the fact you rning things like this to light. I also like one of the response by Tony about different beards requiring different razors. I can tell you in my very limited experience, the best blade for my beard is the Wade and Butcher full hollow grind 6/8. I recently sold one though I maintained 3 more because I like their shaves. I also found that I prefer round points to square so go figure? I also like the Dovo 5/8 round point I have that was bought from Classic shaving pre-honed. Now, I dont know who honed it, but I can tell you for my beard the Dovo can't touch the W&B and I believe it was honed well. I have found too that the wedge blades for me even after a great honing just don't work for me as well. So for all those who might throw rocks all I can say is this, MY EXPERIENCE IS LIMITED! So here are my opinions. First, it was great you brought this to light because when you pay the prices Classic Shaving charges they should get it right the first time regardless of who hones it. You don't owe them anything because you paid for the best and you should expect just that (thoughI have found them to be slightly more expensive, but they are the best I have found for products and selection!). Second, I like to hear things like this so that I can read and learn that in the event someone who buys from me is displeased I can know whether or no its my fault and I can refund their money. Finally, this is a forum and I have noticed that it seems there are some companies who are pushed on this web site. I use the site for razor use and restoration information, not to see tons of sale item from the same person in the classifieds nor to hear someone defend a companies product when it doesn't meet the expectation of the customer. If Classic Shaving doesnt want criticism or unhappy customers, then they should do satisfaction surveys after every rpoduct they sell, every time( they can certainly afford it)! People pay a lot for their products and they are a buissness, not a hobbyist like me who just enjoys spending his free time working on antiques and enjoying a great past time. So, I hope no person or Classic Shaving is upset. Anyone who tells me to shut up or be nicer, my response will be "Yes Sir" and I will be less truthful the next time I comment. So please note with thess opinions again MY EXPERIENCE IS VERY LIMITED!

As far as different grinds and razors for different beards most here know I'm on a crusade. And with all due respect to Tony I just can't agree. Most know what I'm going to say here but I'll say it again anyway so here goes.

if you went into a barber shop back in the 1940s or 50s when barbers did shaves as a regular daily activity and they were highly competent at it you would see a variety of razors being used however what you would see are 5/8s and 6/8s razors for the most part and they would be full to double hollows. maybe a few old timers who learned on wedges and part hollows used them because that is what they were comfortable with but for the most part that's the way it was.

So since barbers managed to give everyone who walked into the shop a superb shave with what they had no matter the beard type how was this possible if you must use the proper razor for the correct beard type?

In the end my view is if you like a certain style or grind over another that's one thing but if you buy a razor thinking you must use a certain grind or size there are issues in the mix here.

As far as your problems with the TI are you sure you didn't degrade the edge while stropping? In any case contact the vendor and resolve the issue. if you paid for honing then it should be shave ready. In general when doing honing and touchups TIs take a little more than Dovo's to hone up. maybe the lead hardening process affects it.

Treydampier,

I think the only concern with the original posting was that it is simply good manners to let a vendor know first and give them a chance to fix the problem before posting. No one is perfect and pieces slip through. Better to say my razor was dull and Classic stood up and made it right immediately, than to simply say it is dull and I don't know what to do. If any vendor fails to measure up contact them immediately.

But, that said many times it is not a vendor issue, simply different expectations and a poster simply wants to know if this is normal so he asks here first to gather a concensus before bothering the vendor which is what the post seemed like to me. I think the poster wanted to sort out whether this is a typical honing issue or a TI issue. No foul in my book.

In all likelyhood the razor was honed just fine but it is simply a different grind and behaves differently. Even if that does prove to be the fact I think Classic or any vendor would gladly let a buyer send it back and go over it again at no charge.

Those who have been here a while have seen posts from beginners, or relative beginners every week on a similr subject, ie...I just got a shave ready razor and it is not shave ready. Most times it is technique, but could be the razor every once in a while. So before chastizing the vendor we help a user through all the technique issues, one or two of the resident honemeisters or the vendor himself will often speak up offering to look it over again just in case. If the vendor truely did flub the job and refused to fix it, well, that news would spread here quickly. Again, a good example of the users here protecting the other users.

Tony

I haven't honed any TI's for Classic in a long time other than some LeGrelot's, but I'll be happy to rehone it for you in any case. TI's are a little different shaving for me as the tang tends to be longer and thinner feeling for and I keep a little thinner angle than with a Dovo.

Have fun.

Lynn

I didn't strop it before shaving, for that is what it said to do in the little paper included with the razor.
Stropping hasn't seemed to affect the Dovo negatively in any way, either.

In case it was unclear; I'm not inclined to believe someone who hones for a living let a dull razor pass through their hands, or made the factory-issued blade somehow worse. I was seeking other explanations for the shaving result.

Tony,
Thanks a lot for the reply. I may have gone too far but I am trying to always remain a gentleman as most men are on this site. So, if I offended anyone I truely apoogize. As you or others may know, when I started I sold some razors that were not shave ready as being such. I was wrong then. So what I did at the advice of Alex, was I went to Classic and bought a Dovo basic 5/8 round point with plastic handles shave ready. This was the razor I used as my standard for my restorations until I started using Wade and Butcher razors that I sharpened using advice from the WIKI. Now, if you note many of my restorations have hone wear, however, most of that was there when I got the razors from the flea market or ebay. I know they werprobably junk when I got them. But, my W&B that I love so much is from Ebay and it cleaned up perfect for me. I liked the Dovo, but I love my W&B more. IN this light though, I want to give full credit and thanks to Classic Shaving because they gave me what I paid for and met my expectations. I just tend to hold professional companies selling premium products to a much higher standard than I would someone who does this as a hobby. To the conerned user though, I can tell you Classic shaving and their hone person set the standard for what I consider shave ready in my restorations that I sell on SRP if I am not going to use them.
Thanks Again,

Bigspendur,

I'm not saying there is only one type of razor for each beard, just that people tend to find one that works well and may stay with it and switching to something different may be like starting over.

Remember the barbers of old probably performed more shaves in a day that we do in a week and may well have only used a single style razor, hence becoming experts at that one grind no matter the beard type. We shave once a day and many of us are switching razors right and left making each day a bit more of a learning curve. I tend to use heavy grinds quite often so find full hollows difficult. Had I started with a full hollow I may be finding heavier razors to be an issue instead!

Also don't rule out that the barbers may have choosen a different razor depending on the beard type too.

As for any razor being able to shave any beard, yes, I agree for the most part but technique, angle of attack, etc.... may need to vary. I probably didn;t explain myself that well in my post. Finding that one grind type may shave one better than another does not rule out your statement that a full hollow (or any grind for that matter) can easily shave any beard type.

Tony

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

if you went into a barber shop back in the 1940s or 50s when barbers did shaves as a regular daily activity and they were highly competent at it you would see a variety of razors being used however what you would see are 5/8s and 6/8s razors for the most part and they would be full to double hollows. maybe a few old timers who learned on wedges and part hollows used them because that is what they were comfortable with but for the most part that's the way it was.

So since barbers managed to give everyone who walked into the shop a superb shave with what they had no matter the beard type how was this possible if you must use the proper razor for the correct beard type?

You're saying that every barber in the 50s could give every man a superb shave with any 5/8. I really doubt that. I cant even get a superb hair cut from most hairdressers or a superb meal from most restaurants. While I cant understand your nostalgia, and would like to see barber shops in town, I am sure that barbers were like any other profession: some good, some not so good, most average. Normal distribution.

What Tony said regarding razor weight

Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I find that whoever has honed the balde full singing razors just do not shave as well for me as heavier grinds. I have a fairly stiff beard and a heavy razor just sails right through while I feel a full hollow, singing typoe blade seems to catch and scrape for me.

sounds much more likely IMHO.

Originally Posted by treydampier

I just tend to hold professional companies selling premium products to a much higher standard than I would someone who does this as a hobby.

That's fair enough, but when an ineperienced user buys a shave-ready razor and doesn't get the results he expects, it becomes awkward. If he names the place he bought from it can be seen as criticism (which he may not be qualified to give.) But if he withholds that info it makes it harder to give him good advice. Maybe the best balance is just to say "I bought a shave-ready razor from one of the suppliers recommended here on SRD." The name can always be dropped in later once more facts are known.

I, for example, bought a shave-ready razor after honing another one myself. (I didn't buy from one of the big names here.) I was hoping the shave-ready blade would be much better than the one I did myself, so I could learn what to aim for. I was a bit disappointed to find it was not significantly different to what I already had. The hone patterns were neater under a microscope, but shave quality was much the same. I wanted to post here asking for feedback, but I decided against it. I figured my own honing had reached a decent level even if it took me some time to get the results.

Maybe on these forums the benefits of a shave-ready blade are overstated slightly. As good as these honemeisters are, we shouldn't treat their work as magical. That is putting unfair pressure on them. At the end of the day all we should ask of them is to create a sharp edge on the blade, free of flaws. It isn't rocket surgery, as they say. It is great that these skilled people are here to do such a great job and show us what to aim for ourselves, but let's not get carried away as if blades they sharpen can scare whiskers off at a distance.