Thread: Japanese Razors

Is any using one? I want to purchase one and would like to know if they are worth the investment and time etc...

Can you share your experiences and links on where to get one?

Much thanks.

I use a Tosuke about once a week. The blade rocks. It gets into tight spaces easily and is super sharp. The shave it gives is very nice. It does take a little longer to shave than with a western straight.

There is a learning curve on whater style of blade you use so I say go for it now. You can either nick your face while learning with a folding razor or nick yourself with the japanese razor. Either way you are going to nick yourself.

FWIW the worst cut I have ever given myself while shaving was with a japanese blade. I don't attribute this to the blade so much as the blood alcohol content of .10.

Oh yeah. I got my razor from Old School.

I have shaved three times with my new Japanese razor...my last three shaves..
After all the warnings i have read, i found it surprisingly easy. That said, i have been shaving with the same old Dubl Duck for 18 years so i have some straight experience. So far each shave has been better and its been Very kind to my face.
I find the rigid handle no more difficult than a western style razor..... just different. It has helped me get to some places on my mug easer and made other more difficult.... sort of a wash. One thing i do like about the rigid handle is its a very positive way of holding the razor. While i don't find western razors that difficult to hold, i do think that the attached scales aren't exactly an asset when shaving. I feel that scales are a bit of an affectation brought about by the need to have an attached edge cover.... kind of the unspoken flaw in the system.... IMHO. My razor is a Tosuke with the round "Tosuke" patterned rubber cover over the handle. One nice thing about the round handle i have found is the ability to slowly roll the razor handle between my fingers to adjust the blade angle of attack to my face. Another thing i like is the smaller blade. It's a bit easer to monitor the spikes in tight quarters. As for the shave, so far im getting about as good a shave as i have ever have with a western straight i my first three tries and maybe better on some parts of my face........... There are a lot of initial impressions here. Remember this is only with three shaves!.... things most likely will be different in 6 months.

Bill..

Newb; thanks for sharing your thoughts. A one who has considered getting a Japanese blade, it was interesting to hear your shaving comparisons.

Originally Posted by Newbflat

I feel that scales are a bit of an affectation brought about by the need to have an attached edge cover.... kind of the unspoken flaw in the system.... IMHO.

This has come up before. In another thread, a member (I forget who, but I think it was one of our resident bladesmiths) mentioned that the scales on western razors help maintain the angle of the blade. As a physicist, I believe I can actually explain why.

There are many parallels between spinning objects and objects moving in straight line motion. This is useful, because straight line motion is easy to understand. As you probably know, in straight line motion, F=ma, where F is the force, m is the mass, and a is the acceleration. Let's reorganize that to a=F/m. Essentially, an object with a small mass will be accelerated rapidly by small forces. If you increase the mass, you will need more force to achieve the same acceleration.

The parallel equation for rotation is t=Ia (the t is supposed to be a tau and the a is supposed to be an alpha). It can be rewritten as a=t/I. Here, t is the torque (which you are probably familiar with), a is the angular acceleration (rate of change of spin), and I is the moment of inertia. I is the analog to mass, in that an object with a larger I requires more torque to achieve a given angular acceleration than an object with a small I.

So what do scales have to do with I. This comes out of the definition of I, but, in short, an object with mass distributed far away from it's axis of rotation has a larger I. So, the blade alone, which your hands would tend to rotate around some line from the toe to the tail, would have a small I. Adding on scales adds mass away from the axis of rotation, thereby increasing the value of I. That means that applying a torque (which you do all the time with your hands) to a blade alone will result in a larger angular acceleration than if the blade had scales on it. What this means in practical terms is that a blade with scales is "easier to control" and "feels more stable."

So, the scales do have a functional purpose. Not to say that many people couldn't control the blade without scales; they just make it easier.
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In my high school AP physics class, when we learned about torque and moment of inertia, we had a fun problem presented to us. Will a short rod or a long rod be easier to balance upright on the palm of your hand? I'm sure we all knew the answer from practical experience, but we were caught up in the "book physics." I myself said a short rod, because, at a given angle, the torque will be less than the long rod (because of the perpendicular distance from the base of the rod to it's center of mass, where the force of gravity is applied for the sake of simplicity). My reasoning was true, but I failed to consider the value of I. A longer rod has a much larger I than a shorter rod, so it's angular acceleration is very low. This makes it easy to move your hand (and the base of the rod) to keep the rod upright. To point out our silly mistakes, the teacher told us to balance our pencils upright on our hands while he balanced a meter stick on his.

Remember folks, fiziks is fun!!

It all depends on if you will be shaving with the Japanese straight using both sides of the blade as if it was a western razor or only one side which is the proper way. If you do it both sides its no big deal but if you do it one sided it can be quite challenging to use.

holli4pirating...

I'm not suggesting that scales have no purpose other than covering the blade. Just that they can get in the way and there might be a better way to design a razor if an edge guard is not a must have.

I don't understand your math (i can't even count the number of razors i have and come up with the same number twice!) but i do understand the concept of Moment of Inertia. As a sailer this is most often displayed in mast weight and the effect on boat motion. If i understand what you are saying correctly, you are saying that by having scales attached and at a right angel to the blade (more or less) there weight increases the moment of inertia thus stabilizing the edge, rendering it more predictable/ less twitchy....? If im understanding you correctly i will agree with you to a point.

When i hold a western razor i have multiple points of contact ...6? finger pads, thumb pad and contact between my fingers with the scales on both sides of the scale. The angle of attack is set by were the scales are griped between my fingers. My wrist compensates for the ever changing angles on my face. But the razor never changes its placement in my fingers while the blade is in contact with my face. I try too hold the razor as lose as i can but always have good contact with the scales. My point here is that i think that most of the effect of increased inertia is dampened out by finger contact with scales. Often my fingers are touching the scales 1/4-1/3 the way out from the pin.

I think that the weight of the blade has far more to do with a sense of stability or forgivingness in a blade than the scales. I would guess that in the razor world it would this phenomena would be most evident in something like a 4/8th very hollow ground razor with thick heavy scales at one end of the spectrum . On the other end of the spectrum my W. Greaves & son 7/8 almost wedge with very thin horn scales or my Tosuke. The last two have massive blades with a LOT more steel in them than the 4/8th hollow. I suspect that putting thick heavy scales on my 7/8th wedge would do very little in making it a easier shave. The same with the 4/5th but with lighter scales... i doubt would transform it into a nickmister. But put a heaver blade on the same light scales and i think it would feel much more stable............. me thinks!

So in my mind... Scales are first and foremost to stabilize the blade with a point of contact away and at right angles to the axes of the blade as the little rectangle tang would be awkward at bet to hold onto. Second to protect the blade. Last to counter balance the blade so the blade seams a bit lighter and maybe increases the moment of inertia a bit.

I will try a simple experiment and cut off the scales of one off one of my razors 1/3rd of the way and see how it feels different... lots of variables i know but interesting nun the less.


My point about the scales has more to do with them just getting in the way. We forget that some of the contortions we go threw to shave are to make sure that ether the scales don't hit anything while shaving or our other hand isn't in the way of the sweep of the scales. I not saying that scales are useless or have no merits. Just that there might be other ways of designing a razor to make it easier to use.

If it seems presumptuous to suggest that after hundreds of years of razor development that i would suggest that something better could be design!?.... About 30 years ago the first Japanese saws made there way to the west. The west has been making the same type of saw for forever using the concept of pushing the blade to cut. There are many problems with the whole idea of pushing a saw but thats just how they were done. Then came along the Japanese hand saw that cuts on the pull with its exquisitely sharp teeth and thin cerf and cured a lot of problems that come with the western saw. It was a real eye opener..... Why have we been doing it the same way for SO long when the solution was so simple. As a boat builder/ carpenter/ cabinet maker i will NEVER go back two using western saws... Its like shaving with a rock in comparison............ sometimes a better mouse trap can be had!.... Im not suggesting that its a Japanese razor is it at all ...... just that i don't think western razors are......


More observations on my Japanese razor... It is very heavy and with Very blade heavy blade feel. The blade is wide (I'm not at home so i can't measure it) and asymmetric. One significant difference is the handle is much more in line with the center of the blade and not on the spine like a western razor. So far i find this helps it drive easily.....small turns of the handle = small changes in blade angle.... i think i really like this feature..... but ask me in 6 months.

Bill...

Yup, you've got the point about the weight of the scales making the blade less twitchy. Also keep in mind, that as your fingers touch the scales, that too allows you to use the scales to stabalize the blade.

Originally Posted by Newbflat

I will try a simple experiment and cut off the scales of one off one of my razors 1/3rd of the way and see how it feels different... lots of variables i know but interesting nun the less.

You will see that it's much more difficult to shave with it than with full scales attached. Another experiment would be to completely remove the scales and see how the blade behave.
I have a S. Pearson/Sheffield spike half wedge and she has spacer made of lead to act as balance at the end of scales. It's much better balanced than my other razors, and behave better while shaving. What do you think why?

--
Z

Back to the thread!

I have had both the Tosuke and the Iwasaki straights. I have sold the Tosuke.
The Iwasaki seemed to hold better and provided a more stable shave for me. I found that the lightest touch seems to provide a fantastic shave. I originally attempted the well discussed method of using only one side of the blade against your face. This was very awkward for me and left a small area on my right side next to my ear virtually impossible to get to with this method. I have come to believe that these razors were designed to be used by some administering a shave on another person rather then use personally with this method. Japan has a well established service culture. I now switch hands with it and use the blade to fit comfort and control. This all being said-
- You can get a great shave with whatever straight you use- It's a poor surgeon that blames the scalpel.
- While still learning, practice with another, unsharp object to get accustomed to the way you need to hold the blade. Be wary, I have never been cut by a blade as badly as I had been cut by the Tosuke- the tip is pointed while the Iwasaki's tip has a blunted end.
- The Japanese steel seems to get sharper than any other straight blade I have.
- I have never cut myself with the Iwasaki- maybe I learned well with the Tosuke or the handle feels stable with the Iwasak, or maybe it is the tip of the blade difference.
-The quality of the Iwasaki is outstanding
- This razor is in my rotation and gets used only once a week- usually Sunday as I give myself more time on that day-
- If you're curious and have the extra money, take the plunge. As with anything new and sharp, take your time, don't run with it.

jmho- David