Thread: Crown and Sword counterfeit ?

It says Crown & Sword and Made in Germany.

If it was a counterfeit, I'm sure the counterfeiter would have been smart enough to add ERN to it. Lack of words would probably be a good sign, IMO. Counterfeiters aren't stupid, they put all the right words where they need to go. And even if counterfeiting was a problem back in the day, the crown & sword trademark is protected so, they would use something different. Like Gucci becomes Gucki.

Originally Posted by Leighton

It says Crown & Sword and Made in Germany.

If it was a counterfeit, I'm sure the counterfeiter would have been smart enough to add ERN to it. Lack of words would probably be a good sign, IMO.

I think you are correct....the lack of the ERN maybe is a good sign.....

The C&S were always produced by ERN?

My only C&S has no ERN stamp, if it's a counterfeit, the counterfeiters made a damn fine razor!

My Crown and Sword razor clearly states on the coffin that it comes from the "Crown & Sword Razor Works, Wald - Solingen". There is no mention of Ern.

(1) Is it possible that this company, or its name, was eventually purchased by Ern?

(2) Could the C&SRW have been a spin-off company that was independent of Ern? Or:

(3) Was Ern so confident in the popularity of this brand that they just let the trade mark sell itself?

Regards - Walt

I bought an ols C&S at a flea market in Georgia, it's so old that the scales are some kind of leather.

There is no ERN but it sharpens and shaves better than the new Dovo, and I bought the C&S so i could practice sharpening without ruining the Dovo.

Maybe it shold be the other way around.

Originally Posted by Walt

(2) Could the C&SRW have been a spin-off company that was independent of Ern? Or:

Carl Friedrich Ern had a factory in Solingen in 1873 and his sons took over in 1924. The Crown & Sword and the Ator were two of their high-quality razors. Older razors and knives had an eagle holding a serpent as a logo. I suppose the presence or absence of the ERN mark must have something to do with when that mark was registered. There were other manufacturers of the same name active at the same time (August Ern 1880, Ern & Co 1878, Walter Ern 1922, and others) so perhaps the adoption of "ERN" as a trade logo was a bit problematic for the earlier razors?

Regards,
Neil

Hello Neil - There is so much we will never really know, and we'll just have to take our best guess at the answers. That whole trade mark thing is very confusing also. The Crown and Sword Razor Works coffin has the logo with Trade Mark printed beneath it. The coffin my Ern Ator came in has the Crown and Sword logo (as does the tang) but it has Made In Germany printed below it and not 'trade mark'.Do you suppose that was significant? Or would you think that it was the product of some designer's fancy who worked in the Ern art department?
Regards - Walt

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Carl Friedrich Ern had a factory in Solingen in 1873 and his sons took over in 1924. The Crown & Sword and the Ator were two of their high-quality razors. Older razors and knives had an eagle holding a serpent as a logo. I suppose the presence or absence of the ERN mark must have something to do with when that mark was registered. There were other manufacturers of the same name active at the same time (August Ern 1880, Ern & Co 1878, Walter Ern 1922, and others) so perhaps the adoption of "ERN" as a trade logo was a bit problematic for the earlier razors?

This ERN factory opening announcement may clarify a few questions such as; where their razor factory was located, Wald, and what trademarks (Warenzeichen) they were using.




I think my translation is fairly close (Google Translate is useless):


C. Friedr. Ern - Wald (Rhineland)


Razor factory
Wald (Rhineland)

Scissor factory
Solingen

Strop factory
Wald (Rhineland)


Awards: (Depicted)


The most important of ERN's trademarks:

(Crown & Sword) ERN (Eagle & Snake)

PRIMUS LILIPUT TURBAN GONG RAZOR ATOR


The company was founded in 1873. Initially employing only a few workers, starting out small, it develops into the most important company in the razor manufacturing industry. Before the war, the number of workers was already about 600. The company was the first to break with previous methods of operation in the manufacture of the razor, taking advantage of many technical improvements, fundamentally modernized. The first led to the hollow grind, and thus contributed to the great uplift of the entire industry. In addition to the numerous recognitions testifies to the highest awards of the various world-class exhibitions, ERN's reputation makes. Since 1921 until now, the company has made, in addition to its specialty items, strops and tin snips. This article announces a special, modern factory in Solingen under the name "Turban Shear Factory."



I hope this translation doesn't make our native German speakers laugh too hard.

What about this: A razor with the crown and sword logo: but with two crowns side by side. Bears ERN in greek letters...
Or this: A razor with the crown and sword logo: but without the crown.... bears ERN and Solingen...
Strange...