Thread: carbon or stainless, any thoughts?

Thought this might be a good place to ask this. Anyone heard of 440c high carbon martensitic stainless steel? If so any good as razor?

Originally Posted by paco

Thought this might be a good place to ask this. Anyone heard of 440c high carbon martensitic stainless steel? If so any good as razor?

440 stainless is often used for edged tools. There are also some modified forms that are slightly better Not as hard as carbon steel, but very close.

It's not a hardness contest. Extremely hard blades can be brittle on the hones and even on the beard.

I expect a decent razor to give me about 20-30 shaves without any need for honing. My best shavers, coincidentally (??), also offer me the best longevity, holding way over 30 shaves. There's a stainless Friodur among them, but also a Celebrated Sheffield wedge and a "Manganese steel" full hollow Bartmann.

If there was any consistent observation to be made in favor of a certain alloy, most seasoned shavers would probably know it and favor it.

Like Jimmy, I have long distrusted stainless. I believed the "stainless is a trade-off between corrosion resistance and general durability"- prejudice. It seemed, somehow, only fair. I have learned ever since, that the reality is more complex than that, and that there is no single objection to be made against buying a stainless steel razor.

Based upon the theory that stainless is more wear resistant at comparable hardness, and that both types of steel can be hardened into the optimum range for razors, I would suspect that stainless edges have slightly better durability. Real life experience, has not been able to confirm this nor falsify it. I suspect that there are too much other variables at play to worry much about alloy.

Bart.

Not singling anyone out here, but this thread has SOOOOOOO much MISinformation from so many parties that I can't even begin to comment. Where the info in some of these comments comes from I have NO idea.

My suggestion to anyone even remotely thinking of following any of the given advice or opinions in this thread is to take it all with a grain of salt and begin doing some serious research for yourself.

Originally Posted by Philadelph

Not singling anyone out here, but this thread has SOOOOOOO much MISinformation from so many parties that I can't even begin to comment. Where the info in some of these comments comes from I have NO idea.

My suggestion to anyone even remotely thinking of following any of the given advice or opinions in this thread is to take it all with a grain of salt and begin doing some serious research for yourself.

If it was anything in my post, I would be glad to stand corrected. I'm always eager to learn more about this subject, but it seems impossible to find good objective information about it. On most SRP threads about alloy properties for edge development and retention, the guys with the experience (read "razorsmiths") remain notoriously silent or at least reluctant to share their opinion and knowledge.

So please, Alex, I would be most grateful if you did comment.

Kind regards,
Bart.

The main reason edges loose their sharpness is oxidation rusts the edge away whilst the blade lies idle. The reason we strop everyday is to remove the oxidation off the razors edge. The blackness on the strop is mostly rust. Carbon steel will start to rust immediately in most atmospheres unless the blade is oiled.

Stainless blades do not rust any were nearly as much as traditional carbon steel blades. This is a distinct advantage and its interesting that DOVO has as its flagship production razor a stainless blade. The advantage is that the sharp edge should require less maintenance and therefore last longer.

I think that a good stainless blade is just as smooth and as sharp as a good carbon steel blade although I have noticed that the really finely ground razors are in carbon steel. I do not think that I have seen a singing stainless blade. I don't know why.

Its advantage is that it doesn't rust so quickly as carbon steel and in all the reviews I have read and from my own experience, I have not seen any disadvantages. Some think they are difficult to hone. I think all razors are difficult to hone and the stainless is no exception.(If you want difficult, try a full wedge)

Look at the DE razors. The carbon steel blades were replaced by stainless blades and now platinum coated stainless blades. The carbon steel blades gave a great shave but they only lasted two or three shaves before the rust had blunted them beyond use. Stainless DE blades last up to ten days for many men.

I think stainless razors are tomorrows world.

Anyway, that's my 2p's worth.

After doing more research on the subject since this seems to be a recurring topic and I shouldn't rest on last year's information...

I conclude that I don't know the answer. However, I have found some interesting info. SS apparently is a PITA to grind and smiths say they need special equipment. So that explains the lack of spine work and singing razors. Just not worth the time and expense. SS may be more brittle, but that wasn't conclusive, so I think the difficulty of grinding is the problem. Bill Ellis engraves his SS razors, so its not impossible.

Assuming both blades are used regularly and stropped and oiled...theoretically the one with the higher hardness will hold its edge longer. I am not sure when high martensitic SS alloys became widely available, but apparently they can take a good hardening. So, if SS can take the same Rockwell hardness as carbon steel, the edge retention is theoretically the same. Add the corrosion resistance and I would conclude SS is better.

So, does anyone have a rockwell hardness rating chart for the high quality stainless alloys?

In my world of shaving stainless blades hold their edges a lot better than carbon with less maintenance. My Friodurs, which everyone has told me would be impossible to hone, have honed well, and hold a sharper edge than I could have wished for. My carbon blades need TLC. If they don't get it they are no better than letter openers after as little as 3 shaves.

Mind you I care for all of my blades, but the carbons are like the little kids that can never get enough attention. The stainless hold their own and then some day in day out.