Thread: New Boker razors

it's *almost* a moote point where they're getting their blades from, as long as they're good (which, apparently, they are)

The important thing is that old razor manufacturers are starting to play the game again, It would no be surprised to see in a year or two companys making their own razors again - it's clear the business is there - or at least they believe it is.

Originally Posted by wopmanfixit

Talk about coincidence. Our Public Works director (my boss' boss) knows I'm into straights and gave me a Boker catalog, and in this catalog is a picture of their thumb test.



In it you can see (I hope, this is a photo of a photo) the deformation his thumb is causing. The question is does this really prove quality?

It is my opinion that they are illustrating the skill level with regards to grinding in this pic. Very few craftsmen are around that can do this.

As far as the shave quality, I would think it would but I cannot say for sure because I havent tried a blade like that ... yet ...

Great Pic, btw .. thanks for posting

I was going over the revisor site and found this

Raritäten der Woche

The question arises in my mind. are these NOS, grinds of Boker blanks, or is Revisor making the new Boker straights?

I don't read German well enough to tell from the website and have sent them and email. I think that Boker would vigorously defend their name and if these aren't NOS, must be involved in some way.

There is a thread about the new Revisor homepage that should shed some light on their capabilities of manufacturing.
They also have Gong (ERN), Herder and Schlieper, which are long time dead.
Either they ran into a sample collection or they have a great stamp and etching system.

Originally Posted by zepplin

Did you notice in their description:

"A guarantor for the highest quality is the successful "finger nail test". Only the edge of a perfectly ground blade can be visibly bent on your thumbnail and returns immediately to its original shape when released. Cheap blades are too thick to do this, and for that reason they are refered to as "axes" by the experts."

* Interesting! I've never seen the TNT referred to in this way, ..."can be visibly bent on your thumbnail and return to it's original shape..." then, of course, the comment about cheap blades and axes, etc., etc. Hummmm, I actually prefer some of those axes, i.e., "Wedges", 1/4 Hollow, ...

These statements in their description seem odd to me - What do you think?

Steve

An interesting thing happened this Friday. I stopped by the local knife sharpener and then my barber to show them some of my razors and they both performed this thumb nail test. Both the knife sharpener and the barber told me that barbers believed that an edge that wouldn't flex wouldn't shave well. I told them that wasn't necessarily true and they were both surprised. Apparently, this used to be one criterion of a good shaving razor.

Maybe it's what people can remember (within living memory) of what was told to them by the guys who hawked the current (then) new razors?
I'd say it is just a test of a very finely ground blade,maybe? In theory, a super skinny grind should give the closest shave. Fellows here have found they can get a big old wedge of steel to do just as good a job with some very attentive honing, but if I didn't have "the Net" to "pick your brains", I'd rather try to sharped a skinny slice of steel.
I have feeling super thin grinds were an effort to make things easier and more effective for us shavers. The makers were able to do this on a large scale, towards the end of the "open" razor era because of more accurate grinding machines - probably.
M

Originally Posted by zepplin

Did you notice in their description:

"A guarantor for the highest quality is the successful "finger nail test". Only the edge of a perfectly ground blade can be visibly bent on your thumbnail and returns immediately to its original shape when released. Cheap blades are too thick to do this, and for that reason they are refered to as "axes" by the experts."

* Interesting! I've never seen the TNT referred to in this way, ..."can be visibly bent on your thumbnail and return to it's original shape..." then, of course, the comment about cheap blades and axes, etc., etc. Hummmm, I actually prefer some of those axes, i.e., "Wedges", 1/4 Hollow, ...

These statements in their description seem odd to me - What do you think?

Steve

I think it's just the usual marketing BS , written by someone who has most likely never honed , shaved with , or even touched a straight razor .

Originally Posted by Doc

Hey guys I covered this info in the brotherhood site a while back but don't mind covering it here the Boker Co. is indeed making straights again with the help of Mr. Wacker. They look very nice but have a high price point in my opinion here is an email I received from Boker a little while back when I contacted him about the origins of these razors.


I am glad I could help and you are satisfied with the information I could provide.
As to Mr. Wacker: Yes, it is true that he is helping us a lot to get back into the manufacturing of straight razors.
It is 2 generations that Boker has not manufactured this highly sensitive product. So there is no know how available within our staff. The grinding is the most critical operation as you know. Mr. Wacker is probably the best in town as far as this craftsmanship goes. So, we are happy that we can learn from him.

I like the quote! Sounds like excellent advice!!!

The bending of the razors’ edge is no myth; I have read it in a few old books… and it makes scene.
The theory is, if the blade was properly hardened and tempered, the thin edge will flex under mild pressure from the thumbnail and “spring” back to its exact form without braking or becoming permanently deformed.
Steel too soft will not go back to its original form, but will permanently stretch, steel too hard will fracture. This is fact and you can test it with your own blade.
If you watch the Dovo video of the razor grinder you will see it… he is not testing the edge by trying to cut his thumbnail.

New-Old-Stock near wedge razors exhibit this same tendency to bend at the edge… The trouble with near wedge razors, after many honing sessions the thin concave part of the blade near the edge wears away and the bevels becomes large… in this case the blade near the edge is thicker and will not readily flex as when it was new, it also requires much more effort and patience to sharpen it… and knowing us humans, more often than not, we quit long before the edge is truly sharp… maybe the belief, “a razor that won’t bend, or too thick, wont shave well”.
Of course today our little dedicated community will spend the time to hone and sharpen a large beveled razor… but check out the posts of inexperienced honers who try to “hone” there skills with a near wedge razor… but then, even experienced honemiesters will tell you wedge razors are PITA to hone.

Back in the old days when the bevel of a “near wedge” razor (the standard of the day) became too large to hone easily it was reground. Regrinding is the thinning of the part near the edge thus reducing the size of the bevels so it will again bend and flex under the pressure of the thumbnail, and the razor will then be much easier to hone…
In those days there were many grinders who had the skill to regrind razors and other cutlery… grinding razors is a special skill, more so than grinding any other cutlery. The German Hollow Ground razors do not need to be reground because the part near the edge is thinner for a grater portion of the blade (viewed at the cross section 1/2 hollow/full hollow)… and when those razors became the norm there was no need to pass on the skill… so today the average cutler does not know how to regrind straight razors.

Now today we see all these “near wedge” razors that were marketed as “Extra Hollow Ground”… and we may wonder... those razors are so thick why would anyone call them "Extra......"?
Think about this, when those so-called “Extra Hollow Ground” razors were manufactured, that was the standard of the day… razors with more hollowing (full hollow ground/German Hollow Ground) did not exist.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't. It only makes sense with full hollow razors. 1/4 hollow and thicker will not bend on your thumbnail. Its too thick, your nail will break before the razor will bend.

Works only with full hollows because they are thin enough to flex. However, the too brittle and it will break theory also makes no sense. If it was that brittle it wouldn't even hone properly, let alone survive the grinding/polishing. Too soft makes sense. But if it was that soft, they probably just forgot to heat treat it. And even then, I'm not entirely sure steel is that soft.