Thread: Dating razors: British Hallmarks & sovereigns

[QUOTE=0livia;374971] Same here! Got me curious![/]

I had the exact same thought. I don't think my wife woud mind too much either as long as I spent less time honing them.

Originally Posted by clavichord

Success! I found the missing element: the sovereign's mark GR, indicating George IV, 1820-1830. Even better: it comes from a Wade&Butcher razor (in not very good conditions..). Also, note that there is an error in the first post of this thread: William IV was king between 1830 and 1837.

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Now it could be interesting to give a look to the change of tastes between 1820's and 1850's. Look at the tails of three different W&B's: GR (1820, 1830), WR (1830-1837), VR (1837-1901).

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Your years were about ten off. William IV ruled from 1830-1837, only seven years.

Why is it that only SOME razors have hallmarks & dutymarks? And some makers mark some razors but not all (ie - ive a Joseph Elliot with VR stamp, but have seen heaps of others without)?

Interesting to know (yes, interesting! source):

Interestingly the Sheffield [crown] & Birmingham [anchor] hallmarks were derived from their partitioning for respective assay offices after they were ommitted by accident from official documents. They used to meet at a pub called the crown & anchor during this time.

Silver hallmarks were originally introduced in 1300 by a Statute of Edward I, which became necessary because precious metals are not used in their pure form, but rather have other metals added to them. [...] Duty marks were added in 1784 as a tax to pay for the war with America. The tax lasted until 1890!

Please remember that the above notes refers to silver hallmarks. However it seems to me that razor manufacturers, sometimes working with silver too (manufacturing forks, knives, etc.), borrowed some elements from this practice.

I've got two Marshes & Shepherd razors with "WR" stamped -- This info in this thread is great! Heres a pic of a nice clear WR on one of them!

@ Undream: thanks! You can find something more about Marshes and Shepherd here.

@ John Crowley: I corrected the error (and added more info) one post before yours.

For my two-penn'orth - hallmarks are ONLY used on silver and gold, NEVER on steel or other metals and a full hallmark consists of four individual marks that form the whole thing.

I have some GR, WR and VR razors but here's a thing - most makers who held Royal Appointments (I.e. Rodgers) of course made the most of it and a dating tip is that if it says 'Cutlers to their Majesties' it was certainly Victorian and very likely predates the death of Prince Albert - the firms dropped the word 'their' sometime after and in fact I have NEVER seen one struck 'cutlers to HER majesty' (i.e. Victoria) - you have to remember that Victoria was by far the most powerful figure in the World at that time and they didn't dare risk offending her as suggesting she may have had need for a razor would have been considered extremely vulgar! They started putting 'cutlers to His Majesty' on post-1901 as the new King was then of course Edward, but the practice of striking the tang 'GR' 'WR' etc had by then been dropped.

Just Joseph Rodgers made razors 1837-1901 with stamps:
"Rodgers Cutlers to Her Majesty Patent"
"Joseph Rodgers & Sons to Her Majesty Patent"
"Rodgers Cutlers to Her Majesty No 6 Norfolk St."
"Rodgers Cutlers to Her Majesty" - 1837-1890.

Originally Posted by manah

Just Joseph Rodgers made razors 1837-1901 with stamps:
"Rodgers Cutlers to Her Majesty Patent"
"Joseph Rodgers & Sons to Her Majesty Patent"
"Rodgers Cutlers to Her Majesty No 6 Norfolk St."
"Rodgers Cutlers to Her Majesty" - 1837-1890.

Thanks!

Do you have a photo example?

Originally Posted by clavichord

Interesting to know (yes, interesting! source) [..]

Please remember that the above notes refers to silver hallmarks [..]

Originally Posted by blueprinciple

For my two-penn'orth - hallmarks are ONLY used on silver and gold, NEVER on steel or other metals and a full hallmark consists of four individual marks that form the whole thing.

Hallmarks formed by four different parts is not a rule (as you can read here and here). A complete hallmarks series if formed by 4 or even 5 marks, but objects with less hallmarks are quite common. The fact that this sytem was not conceived for steel is also reported above.