Thread: Old steel

Hi. I am still a baby in the manly world of straight shaving. I have caught the bug though and have been collecting some razors and trying my hand at honing. I am having a difficult time getting a keen edge on an ebay special and was wondering if someone could answer a question and perhaps give some advice on this matter. So I am no honemeister of course. Just a beginner trying to learn to hone my own razors. I have a long way to go and a lot to learn still but I have gotten a few razors to give me a decently keen edge, at least good enough for a decent shave. Now these razors were quite dull when I received them so I know that I am making progress being able to take them from not even being able to cut an arm hair to being able to shave with them. I do have one straight razor though that it seems no matter what I do, it feels dull or at least not as keen of an edge as I can get on my other razors. It is cutting hair and I can shave with it but it does not shave as close or take off as much hair as my other razors and it seems to dull quickly, almost even during my shave it gets duller. It is definitely my oldest razor, being at a minimum of 90 years old, based upon what a SRP member told me. I was wondering if the age of steel has any bearing on how it will hone up? Will older steel become more brittle as it becomes older? It was forged and ground in Sheffield so I though it should be decent quality. Are there any special considerations when working with a razor that is so old?

Thanks in advance for any info or advice!

The age of the steel will have no bearing in terms of degrading over time. The original composition of the alloy and the heat treating and tempering will remain unless the blade is overheated when someone may have buffed or polished it.

The general consensus seems to be that inadequate bevel setting is the usual suspect in a razor that won't get sharp although there could be other issues. Here is the honing section in the SRP Wiki where you may find something to go with.

Hey thanks! I haven't read that info on here before. I already see I have a lot of reading to do!

+1 with what Jimmy said. You might also take a magic marker and mark the edge of the blade, let it dry, and then take one pass in each direction on your stone and see if you get an even removal of the marker along the complete edge of the razor. This will tell you pretty much where your problem might be. Some of my best shavers are 80yrs or older by the way. It wouldn't hurt to have one of your razors honed by someone else so you have a standard to go by. Check in the classifieds under services.

Ray

I would recommend getting it honed with a professional. They can set it right so you can continually keep it sharp with proper stropping. You just don't know the straight's history and there are way too many variables to consider. Its a worthy investment!

Good Luck,

Pabster

I think the older steels were inferior in some respects. I think the proof of that would be the Titanic. Of course that's structural steel but for razors it all depends on the type and where it was made. Of course a certain steel might maker a great superior razor but be inferior for other things or have other inferior qualities if you know what I mean, because I don't!

This brings to mind something I read in a book called "Hatcher's Notebook." Major General Julian Hatcher was in the ordinance dept for much of his career and wrote many articles in The American Rifleman.

Shortly after the '03 Springfield was adopted by the US Army it was found that some receivers were improperly heat treated at the Rock Island Arsenal leading to some failures and injuries.

It was finally found that because the smiths weren't using pyrometers but were judging the forging by eye the temperatures varied widely depending on whether it was sunny or overcast. So as good as some of those old blades are there is probably more variance with those than with the current production.

Interesting, JimmiHAD! By the way I remember seeing some Sheffield razors marked "Tempered By Fahrenheit's Thermometer" on the blade or spine. I own one dating back to William IV (1830-1837) so I guess this was a quite new process in that time but maybe a not so rare practice since then.

Thought that it was interresting that some one would mention the Titanic when talking about old steel.
I got to touch a piece of the steel when it was MS&T (UMR).

UMR professor and Titanic researcher dies - Missouri S&T News and Events

Makes you wonder if it would of survied if it had better steel.

Tim

Originally Posted by clavichord

Interesting, JimmiHAD! By the way I remember seeing some Sheffield razors marked "Tempered By Fahrenheit's Thermometer" on the blade or spine. I own one dating back to William IV (1830-1837) so I guess this was a quite new process in that time but maybe a not so rare practice since then.

It is interesting to me too. I find it a romantic notion (in a good way) that a smith could be expert enough to intuitively know when the steel was heated to the correct temperature by eye. I know that magnets can also contribute to the process but I think that is a small window IIRC.

Some of the old Sheffield wedges I have take a great edge and shave wonderfully smooth. So I imagine they got more blades right than wrong using the eyeball method and I bet it was a matter of pride for many of them where they didn't want to use the thermometer. Here is a timeline of the invention and development of the pyrometer. I couldn't find much on the history but it appears from what I did find that the early ones were rather primitive and probably not very useful for forging.

I was watching yet another show on the Samurai warriors that went into the forging of their swords. I don't know if they use pyrometers in modern times but certainly the antique swords were made without the pyrometer of thermometer technology and are said to be the pinnacle of the smith's art.