Thread: W&B's Edges Are Weak (IMHO, of course)

IME they are a PITA to hone and somewhat challenging .... to me anyway... but I like them. There is something about shaving with a razor that is 200 years old that is just cool.

As far as longevity of the edge... one of the problems with having so many razors that you're always in rotation is that you have a hard time remembering which you shaved with and how many shaves. So far I know I've gotten a few shaves out of a couple with no degrading of sharpness that I perceive.

If I have any complaints about them it is the toughness of the steel and how long it takes to get them to shave ready. That is for Sheffield wedges in general AFAIC.

From my experiences, Sheffield steel tends to be softer than German steel (with the exception of FR's which I loathe), so that might have something to do with how they hold an edge. It could also be technique - is it possible that your wedge technique is different from your full hollow technique (just a question - I think I am often a bit less careful when shaving with wedges because they tend to be more forgiving)? Small changes to your technique can affect how long the edge holds.

It could also be a question of the honing. The way that one steel reacts to a certain honing progression can be different from how another steel reacts. For example, I know that a lot of guys finish on different hones based on what razor they are honing because different steels seem to "prefer" different hones.

Maybe they are "bad" W&B's? Maybe they were not up to snuff on production or were in some way mistreated such that they won't hold an edge as well.

And of course, it is entirley possible that none of the above is true and it is simply a case of W&B's not holding their edges as well as other blades (exactly as you described it).

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IME they are a PITA to hone and somewhat challenging

True! It took two days (!!!!) for my last W&B to get it shave ready. But it shaved quite weakly, so I gave it to a friend of mine, who rescaled and honed it for me. The first and only razor, I could not sharpen to my complete satisfaction. It was a "Celebrated Hollow Ground", btw.

I have two W&B wedges in very good shape. Very hard to hone. I find when honed right they really give a lovely shave, but I do also find they degrade faster than my solingen razors. Then again, that may be my honing. But I do love the coolness factor that some dude might have been using it before the American Civil War broke out. I mean how cool is that.

But after a year and half of this, I'm definitely a solingen razor slut. Just love them.

I had one W&B and hated it. As mentioned the edges were weak and after a couple of passes It started to pull.

I can't address the life of the edge for W&B or any other razor I have due to the size of my rotation. If I shaved with every razor 90 times (three months worth) it would take me almost 62 yrs to complete. I can however address the metal and honing of these blades. In most cases I find that the W&B steel and other Sheffield blades have a less hard metal than the Solingen, Swedish and American blades. The way I determine this is by how fast my Norton 8k hone loads up with metal that doesn't rub off the hone. I do have a softer 8k hone that works well with these softer blades and finish them on an Escher. I haven't had any problems honing W&B straights except for one. I can get an edge quickly and it passes my progress test but shaved rather rough. This is a rare occurrence. If you understand the heat treating process you can understand how there will be variances in the hardness of the steel. With the number of razors manufactured it is highly probable that blades were released that were out of the hardness tolerance for W&B. I took the blade in question and honed it as if the metal were harder and it worked out well.

When honing any blade remember that when your hone loads up you are rubbing metal on metal. This will generate local heat and stress that can result in microchipping. Another thing to consider is to what degree of sharp are you bring your edges to and is the entire length of the edge to that degree of sharpness w/o developing a wire edge? The closer you can get your edge to the perfect sharpness using minimal pressure w/o a wire edge developing and on a hone with little metal buildup on it the longer your edge will last with proper stropping and shaving technique.

Due to the extremely fine edge on these razors everything has an effect on the edge quality.

Just IMO because I have no technical knowledge .... but regardless of how hard or soft the steel is there may be a difference in abrasion resistance. One of the reasons that 304 stainless is used in cement plant klinker cooler sifter plates is because of the abrasion resistance. One of the reasons some SS blades have a reputation for requiring more strokes.

I don't know anything about forging but I'm betting that the smiths at W&B used the eyeball method rather than pyrometers on those early blades. It is proven by US Army tests of faulty Springfield '03 receivers that using the eyeball to judge forging temp and duration by color has variable results. So maybe all of the old Sheffields aren't as uniform in hardness as the twentieth century razors ?

Finally there is the amount of steel that needs to be removed to achieve a bevel. Way more on a Sheffield wedge than on a full hollow. It is not by accident that the full hollow came to dominate the market in the late 1800s. I think the fact that barbers and the general public embraced them at the time points to the much easier honing and maintenance of the full hollow. Until the custom guys came along if you wanted a true wedge it was vintage or nothing. The full hollow drove them into obsolescence.

Well.. It seems like I'm not alone and that's reassuring.

As for honing, all of my blades were honed by TOP guys here on SRP. Not all the same guy, but I've had guys do multiple hone jobs for me on both Sheffield and Solingen steel so I've seen it from quite a few different angles. The result is always the same. The damn W&B's dull quicker than anything else.

Like loueedacat said, I guess I'm just a Solingen slut (bite your tongue, Seraphim!).

NOW... I have just ordered a set of Naniwas at a great price (yes, that was me who snagged that classifieds sale), so I will definitely be re-adding W&B's to the stable once I figure out how to hone. If the quality of the shaves are so good that it's worth more frequent touch-ups, then so be it. Still, I think it's impossible to beat shaves from the Solingens and Filarmonica, IMO.

Thanks for reading,

Ogie

As a side note -- I do have a FR that I just got (see my show and tell thread) that shaved so wonderfully that I can't span my opinion to all of Sheffield (that's too hard to do), but I did own a pair of Wostenholm "Peerless" blades that I got rid of because I wasn't terribly impressed.

To each his/her own.

Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

As a side note -- I do have a FR that I just got (see my show and tell thread) that shaved so wonderfully that I can't span my opinion to all of Sheffield

I've had a bunch of FR's too, and they seemed to have very hard steel and were a serious PITA to hone - and I don't mean just because a lot of steel had to come off; honing was a very slow process. I would expect a harder steel to hold an edge longer, so that's probably what you're experiencing there.