Thread: HART Razor

Originally Posted by mparker762

So if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that using that standard a fair price for a Hart razor like Riooso's is $14.30?

No, in reading his post from 9/23 and the issues he reported regarding uneven sharpness out of the box I would have returned the razor to the company given that they are advertising a pre-honed razor. I don't know if that answers your question though.

Chris L

Seems like an excellent razor and I really like the style... BUT it is non-competitive features-wise, with its competitors... as stated below.
I worked in many marketing/comm. firms and here's what I can say from my experience (that will probably go unnoticed...):

I don't see the ADDED VALUE.

- First thing: it's MADE IN USA. I now see that their product is aimed at old school and nostalgic nationalists, which are usually older. But they counter-balance this with a contemporary design to cater to the younger crowd that feels the same way about shaving.(And I'M NOT talking about the QUALITY OF THE SHAVE) A good selling point in those times where manufacturing jobs goes overseas. But I may add that "made in the usa" is not exactly a warranty of paramount quality anymore, even more so compared against Germany and France craftsmen that are known for their very good cutlery goods.

- That bring us to the price. A local semi-custom made product with a lot of quality variation that costs a lot more than their TI or Dovo counterparts, trademarks that are already proven with better quality control (as can attest the OP). I think most people would prefer consistency in a razor rather than uniqueness (ie. wow my razor has a nice warp in the blade and a slightly uneven spine! SO UNIQUE!). If people do prefer that, it's usually some sort of self-esteem/importance trip, knowing that a single craftsman hand made their OWN blade - so they feel special and it flatters their ego. So that makes the "semi-custom-handmade-unique" argument a moot point.

- Another thing to keep in mind about the pricing is that there are a lot of vintage blades around, in good shape, that sell for a lot less so the "new" consumer will usually venture in the used market - which is probably why the price is relatively high... the aimed consumer already shaves with a straight. The market is small, we all know that. Good press and PR could change that and boost the demand... which is usually what a company would want - to a certain extent (ie. not compromise quality).

- Ok they already associated their name with Mr. Zowada... the "normal" consumer don't care about that, they don't know him anyway AND he's not part of their marketing scheme.

SO WHERE'S THE ADDED VALUE, apart from the "locally made" rhetoric (which I fully support, even though I'm... "french canadian")? For 250USD$ and a very bare bones product, I'd expect something more than I already get with TI or Dovo. What about a lifetime warranty? 1 free hone a year for 10 years or the life of the user? Discounts on future product purchases? Anyway, I know it's tough to get a new company off the ground but my humble opinion is that the entry price is too high to compete with the established names, without a substantial incentive and added value(s).

You have some interesting points. We have no idea how much the mark up is for the razor at the retailer level. If demand for the razor is less than originally expected at that price point, I would assume it's possible the the end price could decrease as a result.

Chris L

Yep, it's difficult to say at the moment, as the product has been available for a whopping 2-3 weeks or so? Only time will tell. Good luck to the new company... they have a keeper. I'm looking forward to give them a shot in the future...

Everyone, please keep in mind that in the days when straight razors were still popular (1800s), people paid over 2 weeks salary for their straight razor.

Originally Posted by cotdt

when straight razors were still popular (1800s), people paid over 2 weeks salary for their straight razor.

Key words... WHEN they were the only option! Now, there is not much demand for them and it is a niche market - which also command higher prices - but the quality/price equilibrium already had been attained with the actual offerings from the known brands. Thus, the conclusions in my previous posts.

Originally Posted by cotdt

Everyone, please keep in mind that in the days when straight razors were still popular (1800s), people paid over 2 weeks salary for their straight razor.

I'm not sure of that. The razors that I've got prices on were $2 or so, and that wasn't a biweekly wage even in the mid 1800's. (here's a discussion on the topic, related to carpenter's wages, from a carpenter's union: "During the 1840s, 18505[sic], and 18605[sic], planning mills and door, sash, and blind factories took over the indoor work once done by journeymen. Semi-skilled workers operated machines that mass-produced the doors, moldings, and window frames that journeymen carpenters once crafted by hand. The conditions for carpenters on outside work also began to worsen. The growing use of factory-made wood allowed contractors to teach inexperienced pieceworkers simple installation tasks in several weeks and pay them less wages. The competition from inexperienced pieceworkers left many carpenters with a living standard not much higher than a laborer. In Washington, D.C. the average wage for all workers was $2 a day but journeymen carpenters earned $1.50 for a day work and piecework could net a carpenter less than $1 each day.")

Also, these aren't those days, and razors that cost two weeks salaries go by the name of Livi or Zowada.

FYI

I measured mine and the edge angle without the tape would be 15.5 degrees. With a layer of tape (depending on the tape thickness) would increase that no more than 1 degree.
Also, in comparison I measured my others and found that the Le Canadien was about the same 15.5, the Ellis hybrid about 14.8, and my Buddel about 16.5 degrees. But my smoothest shaver is my W&B at 17 degrees.
So far no break down with my Hart razor. But I am keeping an eye out for it. The shaves I have been getting are all very very nice. So far no degredation.

Mine is a BG ground Hart and not a TV one like mparker has.

Ah I see where my thoughts went wrong- the edge (the very tip) is still only x microns thick and thus the cutting pressure is still the same. With regards to the friction- that seems more like the rest of the blade versus infinitesimally just behind the blade (I'm talking d/dx terms, not *delta*/*delta*x terms if that means anything to you guys)

Also V76 I tried to bring up the economics/value point earlier- glad to see someone is seein' things my way lol.

And yes ChrisL- I'm just bangin' on these over-priced fad razors. Like, a custom is a custom, and you get it because you want to invest in something that is both art, an expression, and a tool. You can say that about collectivity, but THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT DRIVES PRICES UP. And it irritates me so much lol. The Dovo Snakewood has the exact same blade as the Dovo American Redwood, but is $70 more expensive! I guarantee you that the amount of snakewood used in a razor is not worth $70 buy itself, let alone $70 more than another razor. In fact, I could probably buy the redwood and send it off to be rescaled in snake wood for less than $70! I'm getting a full resto with new horn scales for about that price!

Now back to this razor. My MAIN beef with it, is it especially is not worth $250. Why? Because as you said, all the Dovo's and TI's have way more frills. If Snakewood scales are worth $70 that means this razor is $70 overpriced (as it doesn't have them, and the Dovo Snakewood is only a couple bucks more than the Hart). Sure, a review over at B&B said the scales look pretty damn close to ebony, but for literally half the price, I can get the Dovo Spike Point Ebony, with REAL ebony and goldwash and jimps.

Besides being a semi-custom, this blade doesn't really have much going for it YET. If Zowada is truly iin charge I bet he's lurking and making improvements as we speak. This is a natural cycle. Just I had massive sticker shock with this plain jane razor. When I read teh spoiler at B&B they were like "Introducing the new American production razor!... We're gonna start out cheap and simple and work form there!...(at this point I was like, sounds great!) *then the whole big long spiel about Artisans*.... And rumor has it it can be yours for $250!" and I was like WHAT!!!???!?!?

From an Engineering standpoint moulded plastic with a simple screw (okay fine, its a torx screw) is much cheaper and efficient to make than individual scales pinned by hand... yet the cost isn't lower? (please refer to the value of wood scales again....) How many people get customs with plain one piece injection moulded scales (vs. horn, or coloured acryllic, or micarta, or carbon fiber, or G10, or fancy wood, or ivory)? How many people buy the wood and horn and micarta handled Dovo's and TI's over plainer plastic ones? Clearly the desirability to plastic is cheap and practical, not excessive and $250. In my eyes that makes this a $250 blade... which may or may not be the case. We shall see.