Thread: Has anybody heard anything more about Hart razors?

Originally Posted by Bart

Or am I missing something here?

Sorry, but I think so. I know

Seriously... saying a product is priced high for the features is not negativity about the company, the product, or the initiative shown. Saying that you shouldn't have to tape a spine to hone it anything but nonsense. If someone didn't know this information, they may never get a proper edge on it. That would be much more damaging to the long term prospects of the initiative than having these discussions.

I fail to understand why we should support an American product that we may feel is overpriced (based on features). I don't buy American cars that don't represent a good value. So, why should I buy a razor that doesn't IMO? I don't like the idea of preventing the free flow of products into the US either because I don't like the idea of paying a higher price because something was made/grown in the US. Notice that no one is saying that it isn't good.

I know where you guys are coming from when you say that if you don't own one you can't say anything about the value of it, but that's illogical. If they charged $10,000 for it, would you still make the argument? Obviously, that's an absurd example, but it illustrates the point. You can make a value judgment on something you don't own. You do it all of the time when making purchases in every facet of life. Does this make sense? If not, there's no reason for either side to continue to discuss this. It's silly for you guys to say the same thing repeatedly only to have us retort the same tired stuff that we've already said repeatedly.

The point is, when you start talking that kind of money, why not just get a razor that's got a lot of bling to it? If you want to support it, great. Get after it. However, at the end of the day, you've got a Camry for the price of a Lexus GS 350. It's nice, it's well made, it's plain and functional... It's just overpriced. I'm done making that point.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I don't know if you're counting full fledged official reviews or just positive comments from people who own one and have shaved with them, but I thought there were now 3-4 Hart razor owners in favor of the Hart razor and one against?

Most of the reviews of this razor in the review section seem to be based on a whopping one shave.

Don't know if Riooso would count as against, but his razor also had bevel problems, and his also edge failed prematurely. For that matter i'm not sure I count as against, even with the problems I've had. I think that once the Hart guys fix their problems that it will be a good $170 razor. It's a shame that they're charging $240 for it, but that's not a reflection on the razor itself and possibly not even on Hart.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I will say I have not bought a Hart razor yet. Hypocrite?

Yes. Why is it that only those who own a Hart can diss it but anyone in the peanut gallery can praise it? I can see if someone was complaining about the shave quality, but why must one own a Hart to complain about the price, or aesthetics or other design attributes like the finish or grind or smile?

Originally Posted by Bart

The speculations about the bevel angle is nonsense. If the manufacturer states that the razor needs to be honed with tape, than that's that. Anyone who can hone without tape can also hone with tape. One could just as easily argue that it's a streak of genius to produce a razor with a slightly lower angle. It allows the owner to fully customize the edge to his own liking, by adding 0, 1 or 2 layers of tape. I might even be tempted to buy a Hart for that reason alone.

There have been two razors whose edges failed prematurely - mine and riooso's. Since both of our razors have relatively narrow honing angles it seemed reasonable to suspect that this might be a contributing factor. We have recently learned that riooso's razor has close to the design angle, while mine is quite a bit less.

The manufacturer does *not* state that it needs to be honed with tape. They state that they hone it with tape but that it is purely optional.

But even if their website says "Must be honed with tape for best results" or some such, we are still free to criticise this requirement. There are valid reasons for not using tape. One need not even own a Hart to dislike such a requirement, nor to voice this dislike.

Originally Posted by Bart

I was expecting the straight shaving community to embrace this fine initiative. I surprises me that it is met with so much misgiving.

Or am I missing something here?

You mean besides the price, paucity of features, and something like 25-30% of the known population of Hart's having bevel issues and difficulty holding an edge? Other than that, no I don't think you're missing anything.

I want Hart to succeed. Let there be no mistake about that. I think the will be a valuable contributor in the resurgence of the rich american razor-making tradition.

However, I would prefer that Hart succeed on its merits than on some sort of patriotic fever or sympathy over their startup status or any of the other short-lived and frankly irrelevant issues that have been brought up in these threads. I am appalled that elder members of this forum would regard as inconsequential the fact that roughly 25% of the Hart razors on this forum have problems holding an edge. This is a vanishingly rare problem with Dovo or TI. They may have iffy gold wash, but they do not have a problem performing the one critical task required of them. And hopefully the 2nd gen Hart's will be fully and reliably up to this task.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

It's just overpriced. I'm done making that point.

Your entitled to your opinion. There are a lot of items that are not worth it to me that are worth it to someone else.

I would never pay a hundred dollars for a pair of jeans with a designer label but I don't go on forums saying that they are no good or not worth the money when # 1 I haven't bought them and had to pay the price and # 2 I've never hands on tried them.

These designer jeans are apparently worth the money to someone as people keep buying them. The same with the Hart razor. Of those who have bought them it seems that more are satisfied with their purchase than not.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Your entitled to your opinion. There are a lot of items that are not worth it to me that are worth it to someone else.

I would never pay a hundred dollars for a pair of jeans with a designer label but I don't go on forums saying that they are no good or not worth the money when # 1 I haven't bought them and had to pay the price and # 2 I've never hands on tried them.

These designer jeans are apparently worth the money to someone as people keep buying them. The same with the Hart razor. Of those who have bought them it seems that more are satisfied with their purchase than not.

How many jeans forums do you frequent? Other than that question, I have no idea how you can't see the point.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Of those who have bought them it seems that more are satisfied with their purchase than not.

That's a pretty low standard.

Hello Adrian,

Mr. Zowada conceded that the 13 degrees that mparker762's razor had was too acute. The reason his razor was 13 degrees, was the AT made the razor slightly wider than the 6/8's, or 0.750", wide specification. The standard specification for these razors is 14.2 degrees which is fine for all users. The reason we will be increasing the angle in the future is to allow for these manufacturing variations without the honing angle becoming too acute.

I would be happy to hand pick a razor for you that has the standard width, and 14.2 degree honing bevel. I am sure you will find it satisfactory. If you would like to wait for the next model, it should be available sometime this winter.

Kind regards,
Customer Service Team
ClassicShaving.com

Here's the response I got back from an email sent off the link from the Hart site. It will be interesting to see what they come out with in the winter.

It seems they're a bit touchy about the bad press floating around, they took the opportunity to point out a mistake I made. I said "14 degrees was too low". Live and learn.

I went ahead and ordered another Prima Klang. I really like the shave.

I like the idea of hitting ebay to pick up some cheap razors to see if there is something I like better but it'll have to wait until after I finish the dissertation.


Adrian.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

How many jeans forums do you frequent? Other than that question, I have no idea how you can't see the point.

Well I don't frequent jeans forums nor have I considered a Lexus GS 350. I will be buying a Hart razor if and when biz picks up in my neck of the woods though.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Well I don't frequent jeans forums nor have I considered a Lexus GS 350. I will be buying a Hart razor if and when biz picks up in my neck of the woods though.

Good deal. I hope you love it. However, if you determine that you want to pay the price of a Lexus GS 350 in the future, I really hope you actually get the car with all the bells and whistles... It's a great car

Originally Posted by stygian

It seems they're a bit touchy about the bad press floating around, they took the opportunity to point out a mistake I made. I said "14 degrees was too low". Live and learn.

If 14 degrees doesn't allow them enough margin for their manufacturing tolerances, then 14 degrees is too low. Secondly, one of the razors whose edge failed prematurely had a 14.2 degree angle.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Good deal. I hope you love it. However, if you determine that you want to pay the price of a Lexus GS 350 in the future, I really hope you actually get the car with all the bells and whistles... It's a great car

I've got a 2001 E250 Ford van that I bought new. Still runs good and I'm hoping it's the last vehicle I ever need to buy. Not that I'm in a hurry to go but I bought it hoping it would out live me.