Thread: "A good razor". What is it?

Chaps,

Recently, I have been doing some heavy research into reviews at other forums, plagiarism being the best compliment and all that. Thought I could find some inspiration for good reviews elsewhere. Not much luck, really. Started wondering why, and came to the conclusion that the problem I have is the subjectiveness of most reviews.

When we designed our new review system, there was a thorough debate which ratings should make it into the system. Because we are what we are, and not a bunch of sycophants, we nuked for example scent for scented products. Simply because manipulating the ratings for a product you do not like for whichever obscure reason would be too easy.

Razors, however, are a different story. Most of their characteristics can be measured, at least to a degree that will yield sensible reviews: balance, edge retention, craftsmanship. But there is at least one factor we cannot objectively measure: how the razor shaves - in your hands, on your face, with your particular type of skin, shaving products...

Now, quite a few utterly ridiculous claims have been made over the years, typically by people in urgent need of TLC, or simply professional help. The legendary - but, deplorably, lost - review of the magic Chronik being a prime example. They are easy enough to spot using a BS detector. "Without question - hands down - my favorite straight razor", "that sucker shaves like a dream", or (my personal favourite) "provides a superlative shave" should set your BS alarm off. Immediately.

Why? Because different razors perform differently for different people. Using the right tools, they can even perform differently for the same people. I have a number of razors I bought from reputable sellers, and they were shave ready in every respect. But once re-honed, I liked them even better (never having been a great fan of what might best be described as "super sharp" edges - this is a controversial topic, and I have the greatest respect for everyone who thinks the argument is bogus).

Having said that, I wonder what your benchmark for rating a razor is, ie "what makes a good razor". Leaving the objective factors like balance or craftsmanship aside, what sets a "good" razor apart from an average one?

After some consideration, I have come to the conclusion that what works for me (read: "This is a Hess 99, and having tried it extensively, and having benchmarked it against an Otto Deutsch Hans, I think it is a good razor") may not work for anyone else. Don't you think?

Regards,
Robin

I'm not sure much can be said about the way a razor shaves beyond "I really like the shave I got from Razor X," and if enough people agree than maybe the razor can be considered to be a good shaver. "A good shave" is subjective, so there are, as a direct consequence, no objectively "good shaves;" that means that there cannot be an objective statement such as "Razor X will give good shaves."

Both of us being on irc://irc.freenode.net/#srp, I think these two questions are worth being posted in here as well:

"How many people or what people must say a razor is a great shaver for you to believe that it is?

How many people or what people have to tell you a razor you shaved with and found to be bad is actually a good razor for you to doubt your honing?"

My initial reaction was: "If we're talking about the same razor, that's simple. If we're only talking about identical razors...". Which consequently leads to the question whether there are any identical razors at all. They may be the same model. But with razors being hand crafted, and having been submitted to sometimes centuries of honing, can the term "identical" be sensibly used at all in this context?

Here's my own classification system. All my razors are either exceptional,outstanding or excellent shavers. The difference? An exceptional razor is one where if you were being shaved with one by someone else and you were blindfolded and didn't know you were about to be shaved you would never guess it. The blade just glides down you face with no effort, no irritation just silky smooth and BBS. An outstanding razor is very similar to the exceptional just that there is a tad less smoothness and you can tell there is a razor on your face but its still a fantastic shave. The Excellent razor? Well there you can feel it working on your face. Still a very comfortable shave though.

I've found you can work on an excellent razor and bring it up to outstanding however the exceptional razor is born that way and no amount of fiddling can bring another up to that level.

This is an excellent point you bring to the table. I have found in limited experience that most blades that will shave my beard will shave pretty much anyones. However, That does not mean everyone will get a great shave out of my razors. My best shave to date was a DD satinwedge with plenty of hone wear, but it shaved better than anything else. I am guilty of putting similar comments in the classifieds, but I have only had a complaint on one razor I sold and that was before I knew what I was doing. The great thing I like about straights is that their is variation and like my career choice, there is always something you can learn about straight razors.
Grind, steel, point, balance and all sorts of things play into people's preference of razors. Some people like certain brands based solely on looks. Hence they pay obscene amounts of money for certain razors. My rotation is no-name razors. They shave great though for my beard. They are also very well worn, so they wouldn't sell if I tried. But, for everyday use they can't be beat.
Robin, I agree we run into a lot of BS with reviews. However, my review of the Premium IV strop from SRD is accurate to my opinion. I love it more each day and the draw seem to get better and better. I also love the Dovo ivory micarta stainless razor I bought although it is under repair from me dropping it. I understand your points though and think this might even be a good thread in the Newbies Corner because as you have said, its easy to be mislead by a review and spend a lot of money on a razor someone else liked. Then once you get it, your stuck with it even though you don't like it.
Great Thread

Robin, I've actually been thinking about the reviews section and I've seen one in Aftershave section that was done poorly. IIRC it was along the lines of "This product is poor the scent is bad it lingers..." One liner? Come now, I know not all of us are talented writers ( not even me ), but at the very least explain as to why it didn't work for you. I hope you guys remove frivolous reviews like that.

Do you like a little more bite or none? What scents do like/not like. Perfect example is the 5 some page Tabac thread. I actually like the soap. Sure it's mass produced and does it's job but it certainly doesn't make me gag.

With regards to razors I recently found out that anything beyond a 6/8 won't work for me. I shaved with my 6/8 Yaichi few times and while it provides a close enough shave I find myself missing spots that I normally wouldn't with 5/8 or any of my Japanese razors. I acquired 9/16 razor few days ago and I'm going to find out soon how comfortable it will be as far as overall balance, craftsmanship and shave.
That said I don't care if it's $1000 wet shaving machine with it's glorious scales and impeccable craftsmanship. If it's uncomfortable to maneuver around the face-no matter how great a shave it provides, in the end it would be awkward experience as balance, size or even grind won't be compatible with me.
Simply put if it glides ever so smoothly then it's good to go.

While I have done couple razor reviews here, I certainly won't be posting them on the review section as much as I'd like to. There are few people some uneducated who simply go by reviewers and critics. Rather than them going out and seeing the movie for instance to check to see for themselves they decide not to because so and so said "it was rubbish." I don't ascribe to BS critic reviews as I am my own critic.
Reviews are like a-holes everyone's got one, though some stink more than others. Anyway, I know with razors sometimes it's not easy acquiring one without having to pay XXX amount as it can be proven to be an expensive trial.

I believe thebigspendur's already taken part ( I commend him for ) and that is him offering the use of his "Hirohito's Revenge" Japanese straight where members get to try out a razor for few weeks. The cheapest I've seen kamisori on ebay is $80 and while it may not seem much. It is indeed pricey for others.

I'm sure it's already been done here where people have offered their friends their own razors for trial.

I believe an exceptional shaver is determined on the hones, not the face...
Let me explain, Dubl Ducks are exceptional razors, why??? very simple "If there is no damage to a DD then it will take a nice, smooth, even, edge, very consistently" Does it matter whether it is "your" cup of tea on "your" face??? no it does not, the edge is still nice, even, and smooth, period... Obviously there are more exceptional razors out there, I was only using the DD brand as a well known example...

So to me, the exceptional razor is the most consistent razor....

Also add when I said anything beyond 6/8 won't work for me. I'm not saying larger razors are inferiour but rather simply not comfortable as far as grip and balance. But that's my own problem. I'm not going to discredit how well built a razor is because I'm not comfortable with it. Awesome thread!

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Chaps,

Recently, I have been doing some heavy research into reviews at other forums,
...........
When we designed our new review system, there was a thorough debate which ratings should make it into the system. Because we are what we are, and
...........

I suspect there are some things that can be reported on with some
clarity that will help another person arrive at a way to compare one
from another.

Grind, finish and polish of the blade.
Finish and fit of the scales.

Temper and annealing... perhaps reflected
as the razor responds to a specific hone type.

Strop-ability as a measure of how the blade shaves,
"shave after shave" after being well honed.

Variability of product. For folk that see lots of
a specific brand are they all birds of a feather
in terms of some of the above. For a vendor if
one blade is hard as glass to hone and another
blade from the same vendor soft like a butter knife
the odds of getting what you expect is less than it
should be.

My intuition is that a blade that has qualities like my
favorite shave would also be a good shave for me.

Strop-ability is a quality I think is seldom discussed
and can make a big difference over time.

For example, If a maker consistently has good steel and so so fit and finish
on the scales I might grab it at a discount that gives
me room to make or have new scales applied. If the steel
is marvelous and I knew that the scales might be ordinary
I would not be disappointed.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I believe an exceptional shaver is determined on the hones, not the face...

Not sure I can follow. But then again, I mostly use hones for touch ups, ie I rely on people who actually know what they're doing for the grunt work. An interesting view, though. I'm sure I'd change mine if I had to hone more than the occasional razor. Hm...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Let me explain, Dubl Ducks are exceptional razors, why??? very simple "If there is no damage to a DD then it will take a nice, smooth, even, edge, very consistently" Does it matter whether it is "your" cup of tea on "your" face??? no it does not, the edge is still nice, even, and smooth, period...

Which brings us into "what is a good edge" territory. Where razors who don't pass the HHT but allegedly shave well roam, as well as razors like the Dovo "Prima Klang" and "Bergischer Löwe" which, apparently, people either love or hate. I have had a number of razors with perfect edges, according to your definition, but which I thought shaved badly. Sold them, and luckily the new owners loved them.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Obviously there are more exceptional razors out there, I was only using the DD brand as a well known example...

Incidentally, the one brand (along with, recently, Filarmonica) which I think are completely overrated - from a value-for-money perspective. I would happily fork out USD 100, or even 150 for one of these in excellent condition. But we've all seen them go for up to 300, ie bottom line custom razor range. I think that is insane for a tool. Collectors might take a different perspective, but members wanting to use them for shaving would be better off with something else. Or, in terms of this thread's subject, they are - in my opinion, and I'll gladly accept what they say about opinions - not good razors from a TCO perspective, especially compared to the bottom line Dovos (to take an arbitrary example from the other end of the spectrum).

Originally Posted by gssixgun

So to me, the exceptional razor is the most consistent razor....

Hm. So the number of competent review writers just dropped to about 10.

Thanks,
Robin