Thread: Western Style Razors with Japanese steel.

I wish there was a maker of Western Style straights that used Japanese steel (White #1 Blue #2, Blue Super ect...). I know that Livi has some blades made from Takeda's AS but there are crazy $$$$. I'm surprised considering the fact that the Japanese steel is far superior to the "western" steel that there aren't any major makers who use it.

Originally Posted by vai777

Japanese steel is far superior to the "western" steel

I love my Livi Takeda's, but I'm not at all certain that the quoted statement is true - it's easy to find Japanese razors made with western steel. Also, grinding and heat treatment are extremely important, probably even more important than the particular qualitity of the steel (within reasonable limits). I'd rather have a razor made by a guy that knows how to grind a thin, flexible blade with a fine even bevel, and knows how to harden and temper that steel to extract the maximum performance suitable for a razor. If that necessitates him using a relatively pedestrian steel that he is intimately familiar with, then so be it.

True, I guess with razors you cant go 64-65 HRC otherwise they would chip just looking at them. My experience with "steel" is basically with kitchen knives...Japanese sungle bevels (sushi knives). I guess the steel fo the razors need to be tempered "down" just a bit more than for knives. Wish I could find some razors made from ZDP-189 or Cowry-x...those would be intersting.

I took the opportunity to inquire with one of the steel companies who make the laminated materials. I was quoted a minimum of 5,000 pounds at 10.00 USD per pound subject to adjustment based on availability and then have to pay for shipping from Japan. I'm sure they have regular customers who get a better deal, but this was a cold call. When I asked about getting "drops", orders less than the stated poundage, I was politely told it wasn't possible. 'Splains why more bladesmiths don't use it.

1095 or O-1 are usually less than a buck a pound and work just as well. The newer crucible steels based on old stainless recipes are showing some fine promise but are more expensive as raw product.

Originally Posted by vai777

True, I guess with razors you cant go 64-65 HRC otherwise they would chip just looking at them. My experience with "steel" is basically with kitchen knives...Japanese sungle bevels (sushi knives). I guess the steel fo the razors need to be tempered "down" just a bit more than for knives. Wish I could find some razors made from ZDP-189 or Cowry-x...those would be intersting.

Some straight razors are pretty hard. Old blanked Thiers Issard razors are said to be 60-62 and the new C135 razors are 64-65.

It's odd that the quality knife business has become very focused on blade steel hype. Many of the brands have the steel type stamped right on the blade. The latest and greatest steels are one of the key selling points. For some reason that hasn't spilled over into straight razors yet. Maybe cuz of the economics like Mike Blue describes above.

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Japan has produced some fine western style straights from Japanese steel, so they do exist. I have several and they are all great shavers.

Japanese-made western-style straights forged with Swedish steel are also great shavers.

I used some suminagashi steel for straights, but I´m also not a major maker

Fine Razors - Buddel Razor mit Suminagashie Stahl und Wüsteneisenholz

Fine Razors - Buddel Razor mit Suminagashie Stahl und Ziricote

No one from the big ones use this steel for razors.

For the shaving itselfs, it is not so importand, if you use this steel or for example 1.2210 (silversteel). It is more a question what optic you like. But nevertheless is white paper steel very good usable for a straight razor. Good hardness and a fine grain are the importand charakteristics.

the steel hype thing goes both ways
on the side of the newest greatest steel and having it marked on the blade
and the other is taking a steel and calling it something new with the CO. "special heat treat"
i hate the renamed HT ppl much more then the new steel have to haves

Sorry to resurrect an old topic but is there no vintage maker that uses white steel?

You can get Japanese steel/made razors in the western folder style/grind. It has been a couple years but I resealed a set for someone in bone and ebony. They wanted a Yin Yang look, do not recall the brand, they were Solgen Japanese steel.