Thread: Why are Damascus steel razors so expensive?

Buddel's summary is a good one. There are so many things that can go wrong making it, that you are paying for the smith's education (and mistakes). When it goes right, it is beautiful.

Damascus blades take much more time and fuel to make then a standard billet and are a higher degree of difficulty so only blade smiths of good experience are best suited to making them.

The process for making on is to take 2 pieces of metal, one a high carbon and the other one will have a high nickle content or something similar to give the best contrast when the blade is submerged in the etching acid. Then to stack the two pieces alternating them and start to heat them up. The stack of metal will be heated to a semi molten state so when they are hammered they will fuse together. Once it has been fully fused the metal will then be drawn out and folded. This process of forge welding, drawing out and folding will be done until the desired number of layers is reached. In some cases the number of layers can be in the 100,000 or more range, then there are some that may only require 100 or so layers.

Also there are some patterns that will be ruined if they are ground to much, so on some instances the blade will need to be forged most of the way before one can start to grind it so the pattern isn't destroyed.

A lot of work, a lot of fuel and a lot of skill drive up the price.

And after all that, we try to do silly things, like play with the patterns. And hope they turn out looking good in the end.

This leads to a question I've wondered about for a long time. Why are Filarmonicas so expensive? Are they made from Damascus steele or is it something else?

Filis are expensive not because they contain some magical quality, it's just because people will pay that much for them. Supply and demand.

Think of those Filis as a collector coin. A 1909s VDB penny is only worth a penny but folks pay thousands to attain one...why? Because 1)they want them and 2) there's only a limited supply.

Originally Posted by red96ta

Filis are expensive not because they contain some magical quality, it's just because people will pay that much for them. Supply and demand.

Think of those Filis as a collector coin. A 1909s VDB penny is only worth a penny but folks pay thousands to attain one...why? Because 1)they want them and 2) there's only a limited supply.

They have attained the same mystique as the dubl duck Wonderedge, Lifetime (Reaper) and Goldedge. Like the fore mentioned ducks they are real good shavers 99 times out of 100 but bring far more as a collectible then they are worth simply as a shaver.

0n the damascus, I have a few and paid the freight. They are beautiful razors and great shavers. No better or worse than a high carbon necessarily but really cool to have if that is your thing.

I am always incredulous that the steel can be folded hundreds or even thousands of times as I frequently read. I would have thought that it would be ruined in the process ?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I am always incredulous that the steel can be folded hundreds or even thousands of times as I frequently read. I would have thought that it would be ruined in the process ?

It isn't. It's folded only a relatively few times The number of layers doubles with each folding. Start with two layers forged together, then folding will produce 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096 etc layers in succession. You can get to some spectacular numbers in a hurry, even more if you start with 3 or more layers.

All well and good, and I can understand the expense.
But how functional is patern welded steel for razors?
Surely some compromise on heat treatment must occur for one of the tool steels?
If you have to much pearlite structure on the edge, will your face feel it?
Pretty and great for knifes, maybe I'm wrong??
Feel free to correct me.

Deckard

Originally Posted by Deckard

But how functional is patern welded steel for razors?
Surely some compromise on heat treatment must occur for one of the tool steels?
If you have to much pearlite structure on the edge, will your face feel it?

These are good questions Deckard. Re-read my earlier comment about comparing monosteels to PW steels. For similar carbon content, using similar heat treatment methods, and the same edge geometry, a monosteel will function the same as a PW steel or vice versa. The only difference is aesthetic.

My most common recipe is 1095 and 15N20. The 15N20 is the same as 1075 with 2% nickel. Once welded I have a steel that is about 0.85% carbon, right near the eutectic point. Once carbon diffusion has completed, for all intents and purposes, by the time the billet has been at welding heat four times, it is essentially a monosteel with stripes of nickel running through it. I don't have to compromise anything with this combination.

As to feeling pearlite vs. martensite with your face...well, it's tough enough figuring those differences with a microscope. If the edge geometry is the same on a monosteel blade and PW blade, even though un-hardened, they will probably cut hair to the same degree. They will not cut for as long a period of time before requiring a trip to the hones as a hardened blade will.

I remember Spazola making a visit with some nice frameback blades and, if my memory serves me well, he reported them cutting quite well. Maybe they weren't perfect, but they were shavers. He can correct me if I got it wrong. When we Rockwell'd the blades they were only Rc50, far below what is typically accepted as a hardened blade.

That's the problem, there is a range of acceptable variables. In the end, it depends on the person using it to determine if a blade is superior or not. It remains highly subjective. There would not be so many different kinds of razors and steels if "the One" really was the best.