Thread: vintage scales

Any idea why these two would have similar scales? (notice the metal bowtie type inlay)

Vintage Frederick Reynolds Sheffield Straight Razor - eBay (item 190369523813 end time Feb-06-10 22:34:00 PST)

Vintage Joseph SMITH & SON Sheffield Straight Razors - eBay (item 400099812738 end time Feb-02-10 16:21:02 PST)

Are one or both of these not original to the blades or did the companies source out the scales back then?

The horn industry in Sheffield was an industry in its own right. An amazing number of tons of horn, ivory and bone were produced annually into scales, handles, combs, spoons, etc by Horners in Sheffield in the 1800s.

Horners made scales and cutlery companies bought them from the horners.

Even in the 1900s with celluloid scales, it's apparent that some company made scales and razor manufacturers purchased the same type of scale to put on their razors.

The type of scale that catches my eye the most as being seen on quite a few different maker's razors is a black and brown celluloid scale that has sort of a streaked look to it. Ugly scales IMO. I'll have to snap a pic to show which one I'm referring to.

Chris L

Originally Posted by ChrisL

The horn industry in Sheffield was an industry in its own right. An amazing number of tons of horn, ivory and bone were produced annually into scales, handles, combs, spoons, etc by Horners in Sheffield in the 1800s.

Horners made scales and cutlery companies bought them from the horners.

Even in the 1900s with celluloid scales, it's apparent that some company made scales and razor manufacturers purchased the same type of scale to put on their razors.

The type of scale that catches my eye the most as being seen on quite a few different maker's razors is a black and brown celluloid scale that has sort of a streaked look to it. Ugly scales IMO. I'll have to snap a pic to show which one I'm referring to.

Chris L

Thanks for the well informed answer. It seems as though both of these have imitation tortoise scales. As far as I understand, these two companies were producing sometime around the early to mid 1800s. When do the first imitation scales start showing up?

Celluloid was introduced to straight razor manufacturing after 1870.

I just found where celluloid was invented in the 1860s by John Hyatt. So that makes perfect sense. Thanks guys!

found another. A William Greaves and Sons.
About half way down in a pair.

http://holli4pirating.wordpress.com/category/razors-for-sale/

Here's another example from the Manhattan Cutlery Co. of Sheffield.

Regards - Walt

All the scales with the metal inlay shown in this thread and in the links in your initial post are horn scales and not celluloid.

Chris L

Originally Posted by ChrisL

All the scales with the metal inlay shown in this thread and in the links in your initial post are horn scales and not celluloid.

Chris L

Interesting. It never occurred to me that horn might naturally take on that tortoise appearance. I won and just received the Joseph Smith and sons in my first post. That is why all of my questions. The blade is in pretty nice shape. The scales however have seen much better days.The horn is quite weathered with a few scratches and the inlay isn't flat but rather bent, tweaked and covered in some sort of glue or old rotten finish. I am thinking of unpinning it, carefully removing the inlay so that i might flatten it, remove the gunk and polish it before resetting it as well as try to bring the horn back to a nice condition. I will try and throw some before and after shots up once I get my photo lights in. Any chance any of you might know the approximate age of this old girl?

I'll leave the age determination to the experts on SRP that have impressive knowledge in that field.

The horn is not natural in its mottled state. Mottling cow horn was a widespread practice by horners of the era specifically to attempt to mimic the natural pattern of tortoise shell. There were many chemicals used to get different colors and hues. It's important to note that some of the compounds used to mottle horn contained lead and mercury. Definitely not something that hobbyists like us would want to play around with.

The black horn scales so popular on the old blades were very often dyed that way. Even if dark horn and water buffalo horn were used, the horn was still dyed to make it jet black and uniform in color.

Silver Nitrate was used to turn horn black when, after application, the horn was exposed to sunlight.

I've also read that india ink can be used to dye horn in mottled patterns, but I have not tried this myself.

Chris L