Thread: question about damask razors

hello guys

can anyone explain to me how does a damask steel blade get to have those beautifull patterns on it? because ive been starring at different blades from different custom manufacturers and im thinking that the pattern i see on the outside doesnt have any relation with the two steels inside and the way they are forged\welded together...

so am i on the right path here?

can anyone explain how do they do that pattern on the steel?

please have a little patience with me as i am not allknowing

thanks for reading

and please move this where it is more apropriate as i dont know if it is in the right place

best regards.

After forging the steels together the blade is bathed in acid which brings out the unique pattern of that particular blade .... if I'm not mistaken.

The Wiki is great:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Damascus is a sandwich of two different steels. Typically, one is low-carbon (soft and malleable), the other is high-carbon (very hard). The smith starts with two plates of each steal, and forge them together. After suffisant hammering, the bilayer can be folded in two, and the process is repeated untill a thin alternance of the two steels is obtained.The carbon content is uniform in the final result. The obtained blanks is then forged, quenched and ground. Finally, it is exposed to an acid which oxydizes both steels differently, creating an interesting visual effect (see image below).

There are a couple of Mastro Livi videos on Youtube that show him making a damascus razor right from start to finish. I cant find them at the moment, but they are out there..!

I'll keep looking and post them once I find them.

Basically he takes alternating layers of steel (about 8 or 10 in all) and heats them in a forge, then flattens them and folds them over on themselves again and again to make the ingot that the razor blank is cut from. Then, as Jimmy says, he submerges the razor in acid to bring out the pattern further once the razor is made.

Watch this space, I'll try to track down the vids!

thank you guys for enlightening me... i got it all figured out untill the submerging into acid and so forth...

but i saw many blades of mastro livi that are etched from half a cm from the edge and also some from tim zowada as oposed to others from mastro livi wich are etched right until the blade like the blue tongue damask for example...

why is that so? i think i saw something on the forum one time about the steel not being thick enough at the edge but please explain to me if you can coz this atention to detail is starting to annoy me

thanks alot for the info

Regards

Originally Posted by Stubear

There are a couple of Mastro Livi videos on Youtube that show him making a damascus razor right from start to finish. I cant find them at the moment, but they are out there..!

I'll keep looking and post them once I find them.

Basically he takes alternating layers of steel (about 8 or 10 in all) and heats them in a forge, then flattens them and folds them over on themselves again and again to make the ingot that the razor blank is cut from. Then, as Jimmy says, he submerges the razor in acid to bring out the pattern further once the razor is made.

Watch this space, I'll try to track down the vids!

Originally Posted by Otto

The Wiki is great:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

After forging the steels together the blade is bathed in acid which brings out the unique pattern of that particular blade .... if I'm not mistaken.

Julian,

Some folks want more of the pattern exposed to the eye than others. There are simply some makers who do things differently so their work stands out in a crowd.

The edge thickness will make no difference, the acid etching is not that deep in most cases. But inattention can cause accidents that might be the source of legends about this stuff. It's very easy to put an acid resist on the edge or a half cm up the blade to protect the previously polished steel. So the edge would be in no technical danger at that point.

Thanks alot for the info mike,

now i know more about damascus razors and i apreciate you guys chipping in on my knowledge... even though i might not ever own one because of $ or because i dont find them more practical than other non-damascus razors i still like knowing how things are made...

i watched the livi videos on youtube about how he makes a damask razor from scratch... i gotta tell you i was pretty impressed about how that razor looked ( the coloures i mean ) but i dont think anything else made up for all that $ ... dunno maybe i am low balling here but still... i work for my money and i am pasionate enough for these things and apreciate every drop of sweat that went into it ... but still... its alot of $

thanks alot for the info,

regards...

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Julian,

Some folks want more of the pattern exposed to the eye than others. There are simply some makers who do things differently so their work stands out in a crowd.

The edge thickness will make no difference, the acid etching is not that deep in most cases. But inattention can cause accidents that might be the source of legends about this stuff. It's very easy to put an acid resist on the edge or a half cm up the blade to protect the previously polished steel. So the edge would be in no technical danger at that point.

The other thing you might like to know is how the rose and ladder patterns get into the surface of the damascus steel. Each 'rose' begins as a hole drilled into the surface of the damascus. With enough hammering the metal layers will flow into the hole and create the round pattern we call a rose. Similarly, the ladder pattern is created with superficial saw cuts across the blade.

Chris

They are indeed pretty but its hard to justify/rationalize the cost no matter the effort given there has been no definitive outpouring of opinion they are in any way "better".
But no one denies they are beautiful works.
If I could have only one razor and had the dinero i would go for it too.

Originally Posted by drmoss_ca

The other thing you might like to know is how the rose and ladder patterns get into the surface of the damascus steel. Each 'rose' begins as a hole drilled into the surface of the damascus. With enough hammering the metal layers will flow into the hole and create the round pattern we call a rose. Similarly, the ladder pattern is created with superficial saw cuts across the blade.

Chris

thats real interesting thanks alot

regards