Thread: Custom Scales For Commercial/Refurbished Blade?

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Your best bet would be to have the wooden scales made by someone that's involved in straight razors and then send the finished wooden scales out to your wood carving specialist guy. When he's done carving them he can send them back to the original razor person who can then assemble everythng. Unless you find someone that excels at both.

I was going to suggest having the scales carved first (assuming old scales were provided for template) , and then sent to a razor specialist for assembly.

Is there a reason to chose one before the other?

Originally Posted by gugi

I'm sure somebody with carving experience can make scales easily, but it will probably take them few attempts to get the hang of fitting them properly. And then there's the match to the blade and not making them too heavy, or too bulky, or too awkward for stropping (some don't learn even after allegedly 20 years of 'experience', so it's more of a matter of wanting to learn).

Gugi-please pm me about the "20 yrs experience" so I can avoid. It seems though after 20yrs of doing anything a little rubs off. 20 yrs to not make 2 little pieces of material for a handle..........WOW!!!!

I was thinking of something quite ornate, something that would become an heirloom...

To tell you the truth, I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen many, uh, "fancy" scales: most are just wood (or ivory or whatever). I would think that it would be viewed as too fruity and not macho but there seems to be some intricate design work going into blades' spines.

I was thinking of something with hickory leaves (barbecue!) or malt and hops (beer!) or just malt (whisky!). These images give an idea of what I'm talking about, just from some woodcarvers who live locally:

http://www.spanglefish.com/MichaelHe...ellishment.JPG

http://www.freeindex.co.uk/media/pro...76/Jul0211.JPG


Any help or suggestions will be appreciated.

I've seen posts by a person making scales out of paint stir sticks, so I'm fairly certain you could make them out of intricately carved wood just as well.

It seems to me that if the style you're going for is more of a "relief" style carving, this should be fairly easy to do in terms of getting the weight and size for the scales right. Simply take the original scales, have new ones made that are the same dimensions, but more "fat" on the curve. Then have your artist carve into the curve. The waste material subtracted would then bring the scales back to the proper weight for the blade. Once you've got the two pieces carved send them off to one of the skilled guys on this site to pin them onto your blade with nice fancy washers.

I think the only thing you'd have to worry about with this is the finish. The finishes I've seen on the custom work people are doing here tend to be heavy duty stuff that would be quite difficult to apply to something carved with intricate nooks and crannies. Since it's going to be in a bathroom and exposed to moisture on a regular basis you can't skimp on the finish, so this would definitely be the tricky part in my opinion.

I just bought 2 inch x 2 inch x 8 inch blocks of Cocobola wood, and Ebony wood and Sycamore wood. I will use the sycamore for mostly wedges and the others for scales.

I will post pics when I am done. I have 4 razors that need scales and it will take a few weeks. Be patient.

I have made many scales for knives over the years but this will be a first for razors. I will post any successes..............

Originally Posted by Magpie

I was going to suggest having the scales carved first (assuming old scales were provided for template) , and then sent to a razor specialist for assembly.

Is there a reason to chose one before the other?

Although my experience in re-scaling is pretty limited, I can tell you that I've had much better luck with alignment when I can drill the holes and do primary shaping while the two main pieces are still one. I then split them with the band saw and do the finishing work, knowing the holes are aligned.

I'm sure there are arguments the other way, and of course techniques like temporarily binding the two halves together to drill are possibilities, but I like knowing that the holes will be aligned.

I would imagine it would be more practical to hand a wood carver two basically completed halves, and have him do the work on those. In addition, since you wouldn't be doing any more shaping to the scales, he could work within the final proportions of the piece.

My two cents.

Fred

It might be just that we don't have master woodcarvers here yet. I think mackie has recently carved a few scales on synthetics, check his threads. Shutterbug produces some top-rate fancy scales too, but on silver.

When you get it done, get a nice big blade, find out and write down to yourself what you would like in terms of shape, design, performance, materials etc. After that, get a hold of a razor restorer and carver and introduce your design to them and get them to collaborate with you and each other to have it made. There's probably tons of stuff that just won't be viable from either standpoint, so you all need to work together.

To the general conversation, there's few points I'd like to make:
-Master engarvers probably feel the scales limiting, since there isn't very much area on a razor scale.
-tiny, delicate designs on a piece which must stand considerable and continuous mechanical and environmental stress. Nuff said.
-Skrimshaw would be mechanically more stable and easier to protect
-effort vs profit

Scales are thin and would take a bit of a touch to carve anything in them.

I kind-of figured this would be a huge consideration... Plus, I suppose the proposed wood carver might not consider things like balance and handle-ability -- things that an expert razor craftsman would consider to be of paramount concern.

For the time being, I'm just trying to get a feel for what's possible and what's available out there, and I sincerely appreciate everyone's input.

To be a bit more specific, I'm looking for something in a lighter-colored wood (or old piano ivory, thanks for the rec!) and the carving would have an olde-worlde, antique aesthetic.

If anyone out there "knows someone" or would be willing to say, "Yes, I have a set of scales you can buy for $X, just have the carver create something within Y parameters and I can fit them to a blade," then do feel free to send me a PM. However, please be advised, I will be taking my time and doing a lot of research (as in, definitely weeks' and probably months' worth) on this before I start firing off PayPals. I will post something in the classifieds when I am satisfied I know what I want and what needs to be done.

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Your best bet would be to have the wooden scales made by someone that's involved in straight razors and then send the finished wooden scales out to your wood carving specialist guy. When he's done carving them he can send them back to the original razor person who can then assemble everything. Unless you find someone that excels at both.

Personally I think maybe you should listen to what one of the real experts said,,

What you asking to be done is really rather easy,,I would give the exact same advice...
The only people that "MIGHT" posses both skill sets that I can think of are Robert Williams (he does scrimshaw work, don't know if he does relief carving) and John/Shutterbug (he does intricate silver engraving , don't know if he does relief carving)

Other then that you need to do what Max and I both are telling you is to have the scales made with the "Knowledge" that they are going to be carved so the the scale maker can thin them up for balance and flex them after he gets them back, by sanding from the inside...
But they do need to be shaped and drilled first...

This is an interesting thread, and since I have some relevant experience I'll chip in with a few personal thoughts.

This looks to me to be a three part process: 1) get the scale blanks made, 2) pass them on for carving, then 3) return them to a razor man for fitting. Part 3 isn't as trivial as it might appear - with some blades it will call for a good deal of lateral thinking.

The blanks should be made a little beefier than normal since material is going to be removed. That will affect how much they will flex.

The carving design shouldn't introduce any pronounced weak spots, not so much because they might break although that's a consideration of course, but because the bend will become uneven. I imagine a regular repeat design in shallow relief wouldn't cause undue trouble, though the scales might decide to bend into a series of facets if there's work all the way across the grain. Actually, that might be an interesting feature. A metal liner might be a way to get around that one. Here's a link to a carved razor: note that there are no obvious weaknesses across the line of the bend (also that they are plastic ...)
Klauberg, C. & Bros. "Damascene" 5/8 - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Material. The timbers favoured by woodcarvers tend to be bland in appearance with little figure. This is a good thing: fancy wood and fancy carving lead to visual confusion, especially on small objects. Probably most people here would agree that it's best to go for a hard dense material, which often means rosewoods of some sort, but I don't think that's a good option here because of the visuals, and the fact that most woods of that type are quite spiteful if you try to carve them - bits fall off. I'd be tempted to try African blackwood which supports fine detail well (what does it look like? very black), hard maple (pinkish white), or hornbeam (not far off white). Ivory or bone would be preferable to wood for this project - stronger, will support the detail well, and fairly plain in appearance. Sadly it will also be a good deal harder to work, though.

All the above, needless to say, is just my tuppence worth.

I think this sounds like a really interesting and worthwhile project. The trick will be to find the right people to bring it together.