Thread: Are there deals in the future?

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Either way, it does take work to collect straight razors, nice ones. To really build am impressive collection with high quality excellent condition razors, it's almost like a part time job. You either pay with money, time or both. I know someone personally who is a pro, a true pro at keeping his ear to the ground on spending a lot of time on Ebay, local sales, estate, etc. He has the luxury of being able to devote a ton of time toward looking and he scores great deals because of it.

Let me put it this way: I have been looking for a excellent/mint Puma 89 with black scales and rubber tang protection for some time. Over two years to be precise. My reasons are purely irrational, mind you: I do not expect super shaves from it, nor is it even my preferred size. It has simply not happened yet. There was one on eBay some time ago, but I had set a limit to 200, and even that would have been vastly overpriced compared to what else is available from vendors (yes, NOS including warranty and all that).

I believe the number of good deals will dwindle, and shortly. What annoys me most is beginners hoarding razors and "restoring" them with lacking skills, sub part equipment, and bad taste. The number of shoddily "polished" razors with bad honing and wooden scales in the market is amazing, and the more people do that to make a quick buck, the less good razors will be available to people truly into straight razors (let alone collecting them) in 5 to 10 years's time. Bit of a shame, if you ask me.

Regards,
Robin

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

What annoys me most is beginners hoarding razors and "restoring" them with lacking skills, sub part equipment, and bad taste. The number of shoddily "polished" razors with bad honing and wooden scales in the market is amazing, and the more people do that to make a quick buck, the less good razors will be available to people truly into straight razors (let alone collecting them) in 5 to 10 years's time. Bit of a shame, if you ask me.

Regards,
Robin

DEAD on the money, Robin.

Are there deals in the future? - Sure, but they won't be happening as often. The SRP classified is the best bet for deals as there is no possible way for people to compete for razors. If you want a nice vintage razor, watch the classifieds like a hawk. Also, Revisor sells very nice vintage razors in great condition for great prices - check them out:

Home

Antique shops and other countries are probably good bets to find nice vintage razors. I bet Solingen, Germany has nice vintage razors in nooks and crannies. For Filarmonica Razors, visit Spain and Latin American countries. That is where all of the NOS eBay Filarmonica razors are coming from. Your next vintage razor find may be a vacation away.

Popular antique items are expensive - get over it. It comes down to supply and demand.

Supply Down + Demand Up = High Price -> High School Economics


And it is always the newbies fault - in everything. Doesn't matter if it is in straight razor usage or working in a lab. A newbie screws up in lab - it isn't shoddy training, poor work culture, or unrealistic expectations; it is the newbie. Newbies make great prey, always. There is nothing easier than to blame something on a newbie.

All of these newbie straight razor users must not really want to use straight razors. How could they possibly truly want to use straight razors? The idea of it is absurd. It is just a huge conspiracy to prevent you from getting a cheap NOS vintage razor on eBay, simple as that.

I also get a kick when "experienced" straight razor users that own 20+ nice vintage straight razors complain about not being able to get a cheap NOS vintage razor off eBay. Don't you have enough razors? If you think about it, you are worse than the newbies because not only do you play a part in increasing the demand, but you also do a double whammy on the supply side of things as you horde razors and continue to buy them. Newbies didn't invent RAD, SBAD, SCAD, SSAD, HAD, SAD, etc..

As far as newbies trying to make a quick buck doing crappy restores on razors go, I don't think that is in the majority of newbies at all. Most newbies don't even know what equipment to purchase, let alone trying their hands on straight razor restoration. Most newbies are worried about butchering their faces with their new found hobby. I will say that I am against anyone trying to make a quick buck ruining razors with shoddy restorations, though.

As a newbie, I really didn't want to buy a vintage razor. I didn't want to deal with the variables, and I didn't want the responsibility involved in taking care of a piece of history. I did eventually pay a premium to buy a vintage razor though. I changed my mind because I realized that current manufacturers do not make a razor I want to buy right now. Also, current manufacturers play a role in this as well. They simply don't make as high a quality product as the vintage razors are. Also, the quality in newly produced razors is going down, with prices going up. It is sad to say that Dovo razors made in the 1990's to early 2000's can be considered "vintage" razors. Previous Dovo razors were triple-pinned, had deep tang stamps, and nice razor grinds. Now they have gotten rid of triple-pinning razors, use cheap laser etching on tangs that almost makes the marking look printed on, and have poor razor grinds. I know this because I bought a new Dovo razor, following the go-to advice for newbies. Take a look at the pictures posted on vendors websites, those are not the Dovo razors you are actually buying. Anymore, the only people that are making quality razors are the custom razor people - Zowada, Livi, Harner, Chandler, etc.

When I first came to SRP, I couldn't believe how welcoming people were. It seemed like newbies were not judged, but were welcomed. This is still mostly true. My natural human instincts told me that people who do cool, unique things prefer that others do not do the same cool, unique things, otherwise how would those people still remain to be unique. I am starting to see the nice atmosphere deteriorate a little bit. Everyone should be open to criticism; however, I hope the place does not become toxic to new people. As I see it, SRP's main goal is to promote the art of straight razor shaving. This can not be done in a toxic environment for new people.


Sorry for the long post and rant. I am just in that kind of mood.

Originally Posted by altshaver

I also get a kick when "experienced" straight razor users that own 20+ nice vintage straight razors complain about not being able to get a cheap NOS vintage razor off eBay. Don't you have enough razors? If you think about it, you are worse than the newbies because not only do you play a part in increasing the demand, but you also do a double whammy on the supply side of things as you horde razors and continue to buy them. Newbies didn't invent RAD, SBAD, SCAD, SSAD, HAD, SAD, etc..

Your logic has loopholes wide enough to drive a truck through:

1. It is experienced SRP members who re-insert restored razor into the supply chain. If you compare what some mentors and moderators in particular are putting up for sale in the Classifieds, you will be hard pressed to find fault with either the products, or the pricing.
2. While I am not even sure I own 20+ nice vintage straight razors, I can assure you that I have been re-inserting the ones I bought but did not like into the supply chain, too. Usually without a markup, and always with a better edge.
3. Quite a few of the experienced members borrow kit to beginners. I currently have 4 razors and two strops out there in the world. I could not do that if I didn't have a small surplus of kit. Mind you, these are typical "low end classifieds" razors like these or this one.

So if you eliminate the spurious quotation marks, and stick with the truth, experienced members are less of a problem than you would like to lead your audience to believe. As far as "experienced" members are concerned, you are making an excellent point, albeit by example.

Originally Posted by altshaver

Also, current manufacturers play a role in this as well. They simply don't make as high a quality product as the vintage razors are. Also, the quality in newly produced razors is going down, with prices going up. It is sad to say that Dovo razors made in the 1990's to early 2000's can be considered "vintage" razors. Previous Dovo razors were triple-pinned, had deep tang stamps, and nice razor grinds. Now they have gotten rid of triple-pinning razors, use cheap laser etching on tangs that almost makes the marking look printed on, and have poor razor grinds.

Absolutely. Let's take the "Bergischer Löwe" for example. No, wait, that won't work...

Coming back to flawed logic, let's begin with the term "quality". When you lament the lack of quality in Dovo razors, what exactly are you referring to? Because as it stands, what you are saying sounds a lot like the mindless drivel by the leader of a popular amateur shaving community. And before you start detailling how vintage razors were - across the board - more uniform, had better scales, or simply shaved better, let us please remember two things:

1. Spending power when they were produced compared to the price of a current Dovo/Böker/Puma/TI or any other mass produced razor;
2. Quality assurance across numbers, keeping in mind that Dovo are producing tens of thousands of razors. Per year.

Originally Posted by altshaver

I know this because I bought a new Dovo razor, following the go-to advice for newbies. Take a look at the pictures posted on vendors websites, those are not the Dovo razors you are actually buying.

Deceptive advertising is a criminal offence in Germany (and the rest of the EU if memory serves me right). Or, less politely put, you might want to find out who put a stop payment on your reality check.

Originally Posted by altshaver

Anymore, the only people that are making quality razors are the custom razor people - Zowada, Livi, Harner, Chandler, etc.

The Q word again. It is a bit like Hitler for regular discussions on the internet: Every time someone runs out of arguments, in comes the quality "argument" by ways of a thought-terminating cliché. I am sorry, but I prefer to not compare apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by altshaver

Everyone should be open to criticism; however, I hope the place does not become toxic to new people. As I see it, SRP's main goal is to promote the art of straight razor shaving. This can not be done in a toxic environment for new people.


Sorry for the long post and rant. I am just in that kind of mood.

The art of self fulfilling prophecies. You have mastered it. Unlike on other forums, you do not get banned for voicing substantiated criticism here. However, you will have to accept that if your logic is flawed, these flaws will be highlighted. And what goes around comes around. Your implied antagonism of beginners reflects on your behaviour, and your behaviour only. If you feel like you need to rant, I would strongly encourage you to do that elsewhere. I can think of at least to forums where vendor bashing and pseudo elitist razor fetishism are cherished by the forum owners.

However, SRP is about getting the most fun out of our hobby. If you are not getting fun out of it, maybe it is not for you.

Regards,
Robin

I think this is overly harsh. Experienced members give a lot to the community. I really enjoy the interactions I have had with them. The information they have supplied to me has been priceless and I enjoy making new friends on this forum.

I don't deserve to be compared to Hitler. Members of my family fought in both Theaters of World War 2, ridding the world of some of the most fascist regimes. I won't tolerate it.

This might not be the place for me.

Um, I'm not quite sure how this got so fractious, but it put me in mind of Hawkeye5's recent thread:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...-grateful.html

Here's my take on things from the other side of the Atlantic. There seems to be a straight razor fad at the moment, and there are a surprising number of online shops offering new razors, ranging from the Cyril Salter and Artamis ranges, to the more expensive offerings from Dovo and TI. I imagine that most prospective new users would make their choice from these, and if they have done their research, they'll discover the dealers who can put a good edge on them (where possible ...).

As regards vintage razors, there's plenty on Ebay.co.uk, and yes, prices are getting driven upwards, but hardly to unreasonable levels. It's still possible to find them in antique and junk shops from time to time, which is my preferred hunting ground, and the going rate is still very affordable indeed. I haven't heard of anyone else showing an interest in my neck of the woods just yet, and I'm fairly optimistic that things aren't going to get out of hand any time soon. So: no grumbles from me as things stand.

I've experienced the same sort of thing whenever visiting antique shops, and it seems to me this type of thing is only going to get worse. But I probably qualify as one of those young "hipsters" you are complaining about.

edit: I'm actually not a hipster by any means, just a "youngster"

Originally Posted by greenguy206

I've experienced the same sort of thing whenever visiting antique shops, and it seems to me this type of thing is only going to get worse. But I probably qualify as one of those young "hipsters" you are complaining about.

If it really is the hipsters as I suspect then it will go away soon enough. Listening to my brother and his friends just about blows your mind... Here you got some early 20's guys with tattoos and such talking about finding a vintage pair of denim converse high tops, hitting up antique shops for hats, canes, flasks, razors, ect. Its funny at the same time cause 9/10 of them will get rid of everything they are buying within the next 2-5 years if this trend follows the typical pattern.

If you are here you might still be a hipster but you are also likely to take care of the razors and put them to use, I don't mind missing the good stuff to those sorts of peoples.

As someone else mentions about the antique shows and such... I am planning on hitting them up and seeing what I can find. I don't get out of the cities for work unfortunately so my chances to hit up shops truely away from the metro are few and far between.

The truth is that no one needs more than a couple of Razors, maybe three at most. Although I myself am 'guilty' of a collection of a dozen or so.

There are plenty of decent shavers out there at a reasonable cost. One just needs to search, and be patient.

My local craigslist has been a good source for me.

The problem or at least the perceived problem at the moment seems to be the popularity of certain antique brands and the accompanying sky high prices. Again, if we look beyond that, we can still find plenty of unfashionable brand razors that give a fine shave, it's really not all that difficult and there are still plenty to go round IMHO

Shave on people
Peace
The Englishgent

Being a great-grandfather I don't think that I fall into this, somewhat vague "hipster" category. But I am an avowed and unrepentant collector of straight razors. And to the statement, "no one needs more than a couple of razors," I say, maybe so. Does Jay Leno need more than a couple of old cars? Does a coin collector need more than a couple of Indian head pennies and a few Mercury dimes? This is my hobby and I enjoy the "chase". I spend a good amount of time and effort in the pursuit of razors. I don't go into one or two antique shops on a Saturday afternoon and then whine when I can't find a good deal on a razor. I was out at 6:30 this morning going to flea markets and found only one rusty Clauss that the guy wanted ten bucks for. Forget that! But, I'll keep looking and going back. The deals are still there. I found a Dubl Duck Goldedge last week and have a line on six NOS razors from a retired backwoods general store owner. So, if you are looking for good deals, get out there and spend some time looking. But watch out, because I'm going to try and be there a half-hour before you get there.

Regards - Walt