Thread: 6/8 or 5/8 ?

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I think the idea of buying a mid-sized razor as a baseline for your next razor is false logic. I find full hollows shave better and I think your first razor should be a good razor over any other characteristic. I think the advice in the Wiki is just dumb.

Absolutely completely agree with this.
The vast majority of razors out there are 5/8 full hollows. There is a reason for that. Apparently a few guys thought they worked just fine.

Gibbs, I read your previous account of the cruelty you perpetrated on a razor with a belt sander. Your subsequent posts indicate a continued interest in these toys so I'd like to help. If you send me one of your recent acquisitions, I will hone it up and mail it back to you the next day. You'll only need to pay postage. PM me if interested.

Since I wrote the "Dumb" logic in the Wiki let me take a few seconds to explain it to you...

Writing something like "Buy anything, then get it honed" is just not a good option for a beginner, because that is "exactly" what they will do...

If you give an actual objective perhaps they will look a little harder and get a bit more educated before sinking money into a bunch of ebay junk that will never shave...

Again these are just recommendations, they are not written in stone, there is very little difference in 6/8 and 5/8 on the strops, but it is there, and they do have just a touch more heft, and a slightly stiffer blade does help just a tiny bit in an inexperienced hand.. -But- way more importantly they are harder to find, used, they are not out there on e-bay and the antique stores by the hundreds for in-experienced shoppers to buy junk... They have to slow down and actually look, the more they look the more they learn...

They are also very easy to find brand new from many -Reputable- vendors that sell them "Shave Ready" for around $75 so in the long run perhaps there is a bit of logic in there after all... The more interaction a newb has with experienced people the more likely he is to succeed..

10-4 ! Thanks!
Now I wanted to add another thought. Many of those razors on ebay (and there ARE many), we once owned by actual shavers that used them 30, 50, 80 or more years ago. Some used a lot, others not so much, and some neglected over the years. Point is some were used by professionals, such as barbers, but there were many that were used by everyday ordinary folks...farmer, rancher, business people, etc. Lots of these folks wanted a close shave and that was about it, except for a few older SE and DE razors. New to them at the time. I started shaving with a DE Gillette razor. Point is, that these folks did not have an Internet or gracious folks, like Utopian, offering to hone any of their razors. They did it themselves and some were good and some not so good, but it was something they had to learn or pay a barber, which, even though it was not unreasonable, was not always possible because of the travel of the day.

I grew up in NW Nebraska on a farm/ranch 16 miles from town. We went once a week to town and sometimes once in 2-3 weeks. I remember as a very young boy watching Herm strop his razor, put on the lather and shave with his straight razor. Herm was an Uncle of the folks my Mom worked for and was in his late 70s, and this was back in 1958 ish. I watched in fascination as he shaved. After while, he was older and went to the nursing home where the straight razor was "retired". He left me his old crock shaving mug and badger brush after he died. I still use it today. Those folks in the country had only themselves to hone and strop a razor for the most part. So if they did a good job, great, but what you find on ebay is from the countless left overs of the "everyday" normal shaver, whether he was good at keeping a razor in shape or not.

Now, herein lies the wonderful Internet with sources all over the place and folks from all walks of life still using straight razors for shaving. From someone that has come from watching as a kid to using a Double Edge, to the Injector (remember those?), to the disposable single and multiple blades , I look now at this razor.

I really had no idea that there were 5/8, 6/8, rounded, full hollow, half-hollow, wedge, or all the sizes and shapes in-between. I figured a straight razor would be, more or less, simply one style of razor. It's not. It's like walking into some well stocked wine shop and seeing all the brands and all the different styles and trying to figure out what you are going to like best.

Thanks very much for allowing my indulgence of reminiscing, and I hope, perhaps, that some other newbie that stumbles across this will get enlightened as to 4/8, 5/8, 6/8 and such. I know there is the "wiki" but since this was only 1/8" difference, I thought surely there must be some real difference between these two, or else why make them? Preference is a personal view and really, this thread is pretty much a personal idea on what benefits either of these blades would make.

Reason is I'm looking at buying a DOVO in either a 5/8 or 6/8 width, New, so just getting opinions.

I just think recommending a 5/8 full hollow for a newbie is best because it is the easiest to find and buy. It is far and away the most common blade on SRD. Brand new and Shave ready right to your door.

I know I spent a lot of time trying to track down a 6/8 half hollow in the beginning before finally settling on a 5/8 full hollow.

It did have the effect that I second guessed my decision to buy a 5/8 the whole time and kept searching for a 6/8 half hollow.

Recommending a 6/8 half hollow is a great and subtle way to introduce Razor Acquisition Disorder into the sub-conscience of the newbie.

The logic for 6/8 half hollow is sound if only they were as easy to get a hold of.

--Shoki

Gibbs, whatever you decide upon take Ron/Utopian up on his offer. A very smart move!

And please for the love of God and everything Holy, keep it away from power tools!

Originally Posted by Shoki

The logic for 6/8 half hollow is sound if only they were as easy to get a hold of.
--Shoki

Shoki, I think that was the whole point. Ebay is FULL of 5/8 used razors, but I have found via google and Glen's help a few places that have the Dovo 6/8 new for about 74-78 dollars. Lynn at Straight Razor designs even has them at that price and professionally honed and ready to shave, not just factory honed. By "just" looking for a 6/8 one generally gets pointed into a direction of quality NEW stuff, rather than Grandpa Bob's overly used and misused, and very neglected razor that hasn't seen the light of day in 3 decades. Nothing wrong with new, but to someone just starting out, you can end up with more than a NEW razor in used razrors that "don't quite fit the bill" category.


Oh, and nun2sharp, I will keep razors away from my belt sander. But, it was not like I was starting out on 220 grit. I started with a well used 1000 grit German belt and applied VERY light pressure against the razor, making quick even strokes. Then I used the German leather belt and again, used light touches. Finished off with my old leather belt and it will now snag and cut hairs on my chest quite easily but I don't hav the hones to have brought it to a finer degree before belt stopping. Before, and it is a 17.00 razor, it wold not even cut the hair on my arms, or chest.

I have a Puma Soligen hunting knife that I sharpened on my 1x30 belt sander all the way through leather belt and it will skim the hairs off your arms, but won't do a decent job shaving. They really made some nice steels in Germany!!

Glen,

You've had me thinking all day. Sucks really. I'm still not a complete fan of the advice but I think the size idea makes sense, the grind part I'm still swaying on.

I think buying a 6/8 tells you the same thing any other razor tells you, that you need to learn how to hone. But, I think buying a half-hollow tells you very little about full hollows . . .

but I'm starting to understand the thought process.

I'd really like a link to a new Dovo 6/8 half-hollow if you have one.

Anyway, in thinking about what I think is the most important aspect for a beginner razor it would be, in this order:

1) A straight shank with solid jimps (for ease in stropping)

2) Abililty to arrive honed (I think the word "shave ready" is a misnomer that overlooks stropping)

3) Full hollow grind

4) Well balanced

5) Round point

6) Of aesthetic value to the purchaser

7) Holding re-sale value

Size of the blade doesn't even make the list, for me.

Food for thought, maybe.

BTW, when I peruse the WIKI that entire section doesn't come up anywhere.

It is actually linked from the Wiki

Shopping list for beginners - Straight Razor Place Wiki

to the FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions - Straight Razor Place Wiki


I think near everything you wrote is in there, but not all together in one place...

I really like the Straight Tang recommendation as Thumb Notches are a learned experience

There is a pic of the Dovo 6/8 in there but I believe it was decided that linking to one would be advertising

In my opinion the issue with the grind is that most people are pretty bad at shaving when they start. They really don't have the correct angle and the correct pressure so they push much harder than necessary.
An extra hollow grind razor doesn't do well under these conditions, in my experience it shaves much worse. A less flexible grind is I think a bit more forgiving to inadequate technique.
But then the less feedback one gets from a razor the slower the progress they make in correcting their mistakes and improving.

So it always seemed to me like a trade off between quicker gratification and more efficient learning. If this is correct that means it very much depends on the person what would be better for them. Somebody with subpar motor skills will probably give up on straight shaving long before they learn to handle a razor. Or somebody else can be held back unnecessarily long and learn bad habits just because the razor does the job well enough.

The thing, as you all noticed, is that whenever we write something specific sooner or later it gets treated as the only right way to do things.
When I converted the sticky posts into beginner's guide I intentionally tried to be as general as possible and point out the important things. Yet, from my observations no matter how often we tell people "don't buy a resto project on ebay, have somebody experienced hone your razor, don't 'practice honing' on a junk razor etc." people keep coming to the forum with 'look what a deal I got on ebay. is it a good razor, how do I hone it?'
Yet anything specific like 5/8, or 6/8, or half hollow, or full hollow, or Dovo, or TI, or gold dollar, or round point, or jimps.... you name it, shortly becomes a dogma.

I just think the best is to provide the best possible information and then allow everybody learn the way they like. There are always those who need to spend a couple hundred dollars on junk before it occurs to them that with the same amount of money they could've long ago bought any expensive razor they desire and if it turned out that they prefer something else it still would've been much cheaper to resell it at a small loss and buy that other thing... At the end of the day everybody makes their own choices and deals with the consequences.

Originally Posted by Gibbs

Shoki, I think that was the whole point. Ebay is FULL of 5/8 use, but I have found via google and Glen's help a few places that have the Dovo 6/8 new for about 74-78 dollars. Lynn at Straight Razor designs even has them at that price and professionally honed and ready to shave, not just factory honed.

After reading the Wiki I went in search of the legendary 6/8 half hollow...

I wanted a brand new, never used, clean, 6/8 half hollow. I also wanted to buy it from SRD and I wanted it to be shave ready.

SRD does not carry the half hollow version.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/begin...tml#post678148
http://www.dovo.com/pdfs/kap2_rasiermesser.pdf

It seems that Vintage Blades and Superior Shave do carry it but I didn't know it at the time.

All that said I like the 5/8 full hollow razor just fine. I am used to it now and so far it is most comfortable to me.

I feel like the wiki should be changed to reflect razors easily available to the newbie. The idea of an unused, clean, professionally honed razor is really important to a new shaver. It just takes so many of the variables out of the equation.

Thank you,
--Shoki