Thread: Blade width VS grind VS tough bristles. Opinions please

Hello chaps,

I'm one of those guys who is blessed with cast iron bristles.

My aim is to get that razor that makes me feel that it's cutting through my duras barbes like a hot knife through butter and still make my face think it's being kissed by angels.

As a follow-on to the 5/8" or 6/8" thread, I would like some seasoned, experienced opinions on the which blades cut tough bristles best.

From what I have read, heavier razors are thought to be better, possibly due to their higher mass. And hollower grinds are more comfortable because they flex ever so slightly.

The mass of the blade can be increased by either increasing the width of the blade or using a thicker grind. Or both.
But, wide blades are apparently difficult to use, and the shavers of old seemed to favour the 5/8". Then again, I guess the average person has relatively soft bristles, so the average vintage razor size should reflect this.
On the other hand, the thicker the grind, the less comfort inducing flex in the blade. Wedge grinds are also more rare than full hollow grinds. Is this also due to the law of average beard hardness ?

To sum it up;

Is it true that heavy blades cut effortlessly or is it just a matter of how you use it ?

Is there a sweet spot ? Small wedge or large full hollow ? High carbon steel or stainless ?

Or do I simply need to learn to use my 5/8" singing razor properly ?

I look forward to your informed opinions and personal preferences.

Thanks,
Ian.

Originally Posted by Shuriken

Or do I simply need to learn to use my 5/8" singing razor properly ?

That's the ticket right there The state of the razor's edge and the subsequent handling of it on your beard is more crucial to the effectiveness of the shave than any of the physical differences you listed above

I have to disagree with many of your assumptions.

First, with proper technique, I don't think the size or grind matters for anything other than personal preferences.

To me, the feeling of "comfort" comes more from the steel than the grind. Sheffield razors tend to be on the softer side of shaving steel, and, to me, even the heavy grinds are very forgiving and smooth on my face. But a German or Swedish or American heavy grind can feel harsh if you are not careful with your shave technique or don't finish the blade well. Then again, an English frameback or fauxframeback can have that same harsh feeling for the same reasons, because it is very stiff and very light.

I think it's very hard to compare carbon to stainless with regards to how they shave for a number of reasons. There are variations among each blade type with respect to the steel. The grinds of any two razors that are not identical are likely not the same, though they may be close. The honing will definitely be different. etc etc.

Having said all that, a 6/8 half to quarter hollow razor will probably be the easiest for you to practice with because that size and grind tends to be the most forgiving of shave technique. But once you get good, anything should shave beautifully.

Thanks guys,

Your comments inspired me to focus on my technique a bit more. This morning I decided to start shaving my chin first, with a light touch and I can honestly say that I made some progress. I also discovered that my shaving cream is not working for me, because it dries out very quickly and basically stops working by the time I get to my chin.

I will lather and shave in stages for now, until I get something better. Unfortunately I don't think many places stock Mitchells wool fat around here
But, back to the topic at hand;

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

To me, the feeling of "comfort" comes more from the steel than the grind. Sheffield razors tend to be on the softer side of shaving steel, and, to me, even the heavy grinds are very forgiving and smooth on my face. But a German or Swedish or American heavy grind can feel harsh if you are not careful with your shave technique or don't finish the blade well. Then again, an English frameback or fauxframeback can have that same harsh feeling for the same reasons, because it is very stiff and very light.

I have been learning on a Dovo Special 6/8" and I was kind of hoping that the steel could take a back seat while I worked out the best size razor for me.

Alas, it looks like I will have to try every size and grind in American, Sheffield, Swedish, Spanish (oohh) and maybe Japanese steel.

And my girlfriend already thinks I have too many razors.

To Gugi, I liked your comment in the 5/8 or 6/8 thread;

Originally Posted by gugi

In my opinion the issue with the grind is that most people are pretty bad at shaving when they start. They really don't have the correct angle and the correct pressure so they push much harder than necessary.
An extra hollow grind razor doesn't do well under these conditions, in my experience it shaves much worse. A less flexible grind is I think a bit more forgiving to inadequate technique.
But then the less feedback one gets from a razor the slower the progress they make in correcting their mistakes and improving.

So it always seemed to me like a trade off between quicker gratification and more efficient learning. If this is correct that means it very much depends on the person what would be better for them. Somebody with subpar motor skills will probably give up on straight shaving long before they learn to handle a razor. Or somebody else can be held back unnecessarily long and learn bad habits just because the razor does the job well enough.

And now that we are specifically discussing the grind, it makes more sense to me to give my singing razor a try again..and again..
When I get that right, I will move on to establishing my personal preferences.

However,
the fact that there are such a wide variety of personal preferences must mean something, right ?

So to help guide the path that my RAD will take me on, is there a particular preference for tough bearded guys ?

Originally Posted by Shuriken

So to help guide the path that my RAD will take me on, is there a particular preference for tough bearded guys ?

I've always been curious as to how someone determines they have a "tough" beard unless they shave other people ? I used to think I had a tough beard until I began participating in the forums.

Finding that I could get a bbs shave in two passes when I began, and sometimes in one pass after I developed good technique, leads me to believe that my beard isn't so tough after all. So unless, like a pro barber, I was shaving various other people every working day, I'm only going by my personal beard.

Having said that I would say I get a great shave off of a truly shave ready razor no matter what grind it is. I have a preference for a full hollow but that is just me. YMMV.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've always been curious as to how someone determines they have a "tough" beard unless they shave other people ? I used to think I had a tough beard until I began participating in the forums.
.

Perhaps "Tough bearded guy" is a myth entertained by newbies until they get their technique right ?
I think it's an assumption I make due to the quick and heavy growth that appears on my face every day VS some guys who shave once a week or so. But yes, that says nothing about the toughness of the bristles. Maybe I should find an old barber and get him to shave me :-)

Whatever the case may be, I aim to be able to say the same as you some time in the near future.
Bye the way, I really like your signature JImmyHAD. It's the first bit of useful information I learned from SRP !
And thanks for your opinion !

I've probably just lost touch with the variety of problems. I've always found fuller grinds easier for shavers to maintain and develop sharpness. Assuming some honing fairy comes in at night and takes care of your razors, the heavier grinds can be pushed easier. I'm just not sure that using more weight is the right answer. if you exchanged the word toothbrush with razor you'd develop some insight into how important grind and size really matter. I don't think either factor matters very much, except in how the tool feels in your hand.

I will add that having a light baby fuzz beard would be much harder to shave I think. Bring the "tough" beards on. . .

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've always been curious as to how someone determines they have a "tough" beard unless they shave other people ? ...

It may have to do with whether the glass is half full or half empty, if you get what I'm saying. Of course there may be other reasons like technique, training, experience or even that their beard is tough.

IMO they make stiffer razors for a reason. Those without extremely thick facial hair have no idea what it is like to have an extremely concave grind bend up and stop in it's tracks! I have found through personal experience that, at least in my case, wedges and stiffer grinds are the way to go. I did not have this problem years ago, but as I got older, the hairs got thicker! Now, lots of guys will tell you that any razor will shave any beard type and that the edge is all that matters! But HEY, it's Just my opinion

Thanks to all who contributed to this tread, I appreciate your varied efforts.

What I can conclude so far is that some of the more experienced members are of the opinion that the shavers' skill plays a large part in the overall shaving experience and grid/blade width are of secondary importance (personal preference).

What this really tells me is that I should master the 5/8" full hollow before trying any other kinds of razors.

I posted this tread in an attempt to figure out if it was worthwhile for me to buy a new Thiers-Issard "Le Grelot-like" razor or an equally expensive Dorko 300 or Friodur 7/8" / 8/8" or Filarmonica 13/14 without mentioning any brand names. I didn't want to end up discussing brands, but the relative merits of the grind/width.

I would still like to try these famed razors out, but I will continue to hack at my face with my more sensible 5/8" -> 6/8" full and half hollow razors and see how good I can get with them in the mean time.

There is still a huge question in my mind as to what makes the bigger/heavier razors more appealing to some.

If nothing else, I will answer that question myself eventually. I guess that's what personal preference is all about :-)

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've always been curious as to how someone determines they have a "tough" beard unless they shave other people ?

One thing I think would help clear up the question of percieved beard toughness would be for you guys to have shave-a-thons at your meet-ups. Take turns in shaving each other and perhaps award a prize to the person who has the best barbering skills or who produces a clean shaven face with the least blood loss.

Just a thought...