Thread: Don't be wasteful–buy used

Originally Posted by Ryan82

I disagree. Your argument presumes that anything that once was can be perfectly recreated, which perhaps would be true of something that follows a formula. But razor forging and grinding is considered an artform. This is best exemplified by the QC problems which plagued some of the contemporary makers as recently as a couple years ago. Why you might ask? Because Solingen's master razor grinders are either dead or dying off at an alarming rate. The apprentices, I'm sure, have come to realize that razor making isn't so easy when the masters aren't around to pass on their craft. If the Mona Lisa was destroyed tomorrow would it be possible to be recreate it on canvas?

Of course not, the Mona Lisa is not painted on canvas to start with.

As for this, working up the process is always an issue of trial an error, just like setting up any production line. If the issue is hand grinding use robots that can perfectly replicate the same actions every time.

QC as a process is hundreds of times better than it was 100 years ago, steels are far better now than even 20 years ago, techniques improve all the time. Now the straight razor market might not be big enough to take advantage of modern manufacturing methods, but there is loads that could be done with them.

Originally Posted by Theseus

I agree with Ryan. Once an art form is lost, it is incredibly hard to rediscover. For example, the process involved in making true Damascus steel was lost over three hundred years ago. Since then, people have been trying to find the "secret formula" for making it, with varying degrees of sucess. The same could be said for straight razors should the reputable makers of today suddenly stop making razors. Jus my opinion.

This all depends on what you mean. Damascus steel is of course hard to say because like wrought iron it means more than one thing now at least. But that is a weird material, for razors I don't see the problem, we know more about steel and how to make it with the exact properties we want than they did in the past, we have finer controls on all kinds of manufacturing processes of all kinds.

The issue is that is there a large enough market to demand manufacturing techniques and materials be pressed to the limits on straight razors? Face it far more engineering and quality controls go into making disposable razors than ever went into straight razors.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Newbies should wait about 6 months or until they don't need to ask if "This razor is a good deal" before they buy on e-bay

Couldn't agree more. I looked at a Shumate I bought during my first month and almost puked it is so hideous. After nearly 4 months now, and much browsing through the forums, I find there are very few razors I would consider buying on ebay and they nearly always fetch 70-???? dollars.

I didn't listen to advice of the senior members at the time but I realize now this is a game of patience

Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle

Face it far more engineering and quality controls go into making disposable razors than ever went into straight razors.

I tend to disagree, Gilette's new gambit is sharper blades, which is an old methodology. Sharper blades give smoother shaves, which was the theory way back when.

There is such a thing as over engineering. Keeping things simple has always been the way to go in my opinion, especially when it comes to shaving.

These days new razors aren't hand honed, they are sharpened by machine which of course can't match the skill of a human honesmith, but its cheaper, so becomes the popular option.

And then there's the chinese cheap metal straights which I dont need to get into.

And I actually preferred older attitudes towards everything, not just straight razors. This age we live in has to be the most profit driven age of human existence, meaning quality and consumer satisfaction come 2nd and 3rd to Profit margins and 'Bonuses'

Couldn't agree more. I looked at a Shumate I bought during my first month and almost puked it is so hideous. After nearly 4 months now, and much browsing through the forums, I find there are very few razors I would consider buying on ebay and they nearly always fetch 70-???? dollars.

I didn't listen to advice of the senior members at the time but I realize now this is a game of patience

Hmmm, I ended up with 17 ebay razors in 6 months, out of which 15 are easily restored and usable. But Again its different for everyone, if you feel like going for it after being advised not to, its a risk, but alot of people get into straight shaving because of the lower costs involved, so if you find a good razor on ebay it has its rewards.

Sometimes it was easier finding a good razor as nowadays solingens aren't as revered as they once were but if you find a decent vintage solingen, chances are its gonna shave good, I have a plain as paper solingen, black scales, 4/8, blade with nothing on the blade and solingen stamped on the tang, one of my best shavers.


regards alex

Originally Posted by gimpyalex

I tend to disagree, Gilette's new gambit is sharper blades, which is an old methodology. Sharper blades give smoother shaves, which was the theory way back when.

There is such a thing as over engineering. Keeping things simple has always been the way to go in my opinion, especially when it comes to shaving.

These days new razors aren't hand honed, they are sharpened by machine which of course can't match the skill of a human honesmith, but its cheaper, so becomes the popular option.

Machines can hold far tighter tolerances than people can. They can be far more consistent as well. Think about this, how many people who sharpen straight razors shave with them as QC? They are trying to inspect quality into it instead of using a highly repeatable process.

It used to be taken for granted that Feather No Sharpen razors where much sharper than any straight, has that changed?

And then there's the chinese cheap metal straights which I dont need to get into.

And I actually preferred older attitudes towards everything, not just straight razors. This age we live in has to be the most profit driven age of human existence, meaning quality and consumer satisfaction come 2nd and 3rd to Profit margins and 'Bonuses'

So start mimeographing your newsletter instead of posting on a message board. Older proven technology after all not this new fangled internet that really is much more complicated and over-engineered right?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Newbies should wait about 6 months or until they don't need to ask if "This razor is a good deal" before they buy on e-bay

http://straightrazorpalace.com/aucti...tion-asap.html

Maybe you misunderstood my thread. I wasn't asking if any of those three razors were a good deal. I know there were all good deals, because I know that even a rough Genco, Joseph Smith, or Sheffield is worth $12-$20 if I'm planning on customizing it.

My question is of value. Which is more valuable than the other? I don't know that "6 months" will answer that question. To answer that question, I'd have to look at the final bid prices of a series of these razors, take the average, or buy a vintage razor prices book, or .......ask a more experienced collector which is better. And since I had an urge to buy one in the next ten minutes, I thought asking would be the better option. And since we're only talking in terms of $20 tops, I don't care to spend hours researching.

To be honest, I really do feel that answers of "wait 6 months" and the like are, well good intended, unhelpful. 6 months just postpones some enjoyment and excitement I can get from my new hobby, which is easier than golf, and cheaper than gambling. I would say, if I were in the position of mentoring other full grown men(because, remember, noobs aren't children here) that you should learn 1. this and 2. that and 3. this before making certain kinds of purchases (ebay) because its easy to get burnt. JMO

What to look for when buying on e-bay/antique stores????

There are many of these threads here on SRP..

I just did last months "Beginners Tips" on this topic if you haven't read it you might want to, I tried to include as much info as possible in one post...


http://straightrazorpalace.com/begin...eb-2011-a.html


E-bay sellers have now found that the term "Shave Ready" works and a quick search showed over 400 hits ... Just 2 years ago that would have only showed razors from Cedarfunitureman and Altima55

Worse if you read the Workshop here on SRP you will find that those of us that actually do restores, warn in big red letters about burning a blade on the buffers and Dremels... Yet you shop on e-bay with confidence that those anonymous sellers know what they are doing as they buzz those blades as fast as possible to get them up for sale

If you have ever buffed a blade yourself you would NEVER buy a restored blade from an unknown seller... I can think of 3 on there that I know have that experience,, I might be missing 1 or 2

Now PLEASE note that I do NOT sell new razors, it would behoove me to say that old vintage razors are a great buy, as I am sure I would get some restore and honing business from it... So why am I telling you something different???

Because if you buy your razor and it leaves a bad taste from a bad experience your chance of sticking with this hobby diminish drastically... And that is a bad thing... Starting with a new "Shave Ready" razor from a reputable vendor or a used "Shave Ready" razor from a reputable vendor means you are starting this hobby with an advantage to making it work "smoothly" (pun intended)

Again buy whatever floats yer boat, but buy from a position of knowledge, not blindly...

Never was a truer word spoken..!

Originally Posted by daflorc

Maybe you misunderstood my thread. I wasn't asking if any of those three razors were a good deal. I know there were all good deals, because I know that even a rough Genco, Joseph Smith, or Sheffield is worth $12-$20 if I'm planning on customizing it.

My question is of value. Which is more valuable than the other? I don't know that "6 months" will answer that question. To answer that question, I'd have to look at the final bid prices of a series of these razors, take the average, or buy a vintage razor prices book, or .......ask a more experienced collector which is better. And since I had an urge to buy one in the next ten minutes, I thought asking would be the better option. And since we're only talking in terms of $20 tops, I don't care to spend hours researching.

To be honest, I really do feel that answers of "wait 6 months" and the like are, well good intended, unhelpful. 6 months just postpones some enjoyment and excitement I can get from my new hobby, which is easier than golf, and cheaper than gambling. I would say, if I were in the position of mentoring other full grown men(because, remember, noobs aren't children here) that you should learn 1. this and 2. that and 3. this before making certain kinds of purchases (ebay) because its easy to get burnt. JMO

You are under the misconception that I am directing my posts to you, I am directing my posts to the other Newbs that are following this thread that do not have the money to toss at experimentation...
To make sure they are reading the subtle warnings I am giving, and the subtle advice I am trying to give... Even if you don't take it which obviously you are not, that really makes no difference to me...
My "job" here as a Mod is to help everyone reading not just you, and my experience and most every other Mentor and Mod on this thread if you read is saying the same thing for the same reason...

Much more helpful, and less insulting. Thank you


I think that the propensity of someone sticking with shaving with a straight razor has more to with the individual person (as long as their FIRST experience was good) than it does with a person who's tried it successfully for even a short period, then got burnt.

I say this because people remember their first impressions, and what they "like". Once they like straight razors, they're hooked, and any discouragements are mere roadblocks to overcome. That's with anything. Unless the discouragements are long lasting and seemingly insurmountable.

Long story short, one can only hold one's hand up to a point, and after that its up to the person to decide for himself to stick with it or not.

BTW, it can be difficult to find the information one is looking for on SRP, there is just so much everywhere! I will definitely check out those thinks