Thread: Giesen & Forsthoff, #571, 6/8 Real Horn

Necro-post or not, they are poor razors and that is worth pointing out to the unsuspecting. I had two in for honing recently - they gave such trouble and maintained the edge so poorly that if they were mine I have would given both of them an intimate introduction to my lump-hammer.

I would never, ever buy one - money down the drain in my opinion.

Regards,
Neil

I like the term Necro-Post so much that I am thinking of becoming a necro poster exclusively, maybe change my Avatar to a mummified Egyptian cat....

Neil, I feel the steel is from a Pakistan foundry, stamped Solingen (Loophole). So those of us who see 'Solingen' and expect a certain standard, this is surely fraudulent, because, the #571 6/8 I could comfortably give it the kids to play with their play dough! I have 1 Dovo prima klang honed by a pro, a 2nd I did once I knew what sharp is, and a number of other Dovos and german razors. All are perfect, and I have taken 6 of them from new to shave ready. The G & F was rusty, dull, and basically unuseable out of the box. So, the latin aside, I agree with you, a razor to avoid. I am once bitten, and never again will I be foolish enough to buy one. They have caused the brand to collapse world wide. People see the price - solingen- and out comes the card. Dont do it.

Bobski

Patience may bare fruit! After pages of harrassing G & F razors over their much highlighted floors, I can say amazingly that you can get an edge with which you can get a good shave. Take into account I have honed this on the full range of Naniwas for a bloody week. I've patiently allowed this razor to 'mature', then all of a sudden that thumb pad felt 'right', I went to the finishing stones with so little pressure it barely touched the 10K. At this stage, the TPT was maintained. I dare not use a TNT as the last thing this razor needed was to be dulled, to prove it was sharp. I gave it 30 x 30 linen strop, followed by 50 x 50 3 inch black latigo. Leaving nothing to chance, I gave it 50 x 50 on a balsa coated Chromium Oxide block. T o my thumb it felt sharp. I shaved with it apprehensively . As I sit here before you this razor gave me a nice smooth shave. This doesn't mean it's a good razor, it means that to get it shave ready it takes 7 or 8 hours and 10 different techniques on the hones. I just was going to give up on a real horn set of scales without a fight. Don't get me wrong guys, this took plenty of work. So now we wait for a couple of shaves to see if its a one shave wonder! Don't you love this forum, can save suicides from frustrated men, over damned razors! Moral to this story,,give up only when you have given it absolutely everything you;ve got!

Originally Posted by bobski

... to get it shave ready it takes 7 or 8 hours and 10 different techniques on the hones. I just was going to give up on a real horn set of scales without a fight. Don't get me wrong guys, this took plenty of work. So now we wait for a couple of shaves to see if its a one shave wonder! Don't you love this forum, can save suicides from frustrated men, over damned razors! Moral to this story,,give up only when you have given it absolutely everything you;ve got!

As far as the moral is concerned, send one to me to hone and I'll send it right back - unhoned. Go figure how much your own time is worth...

Regards,
Neil

Whenever you see the term "made in" or similar it doesn't necessarily mean squat. Many countries have no laws regulating what you can call made in. In the U.S with most things it's mostly trade organizations that try and create standards for it's products. Select products are defined by law but most aren't. often times importing a product and warehousing it allows you to call it made in or sometimes doing a minor process to it gives you the right to call it made in. Probably the strictest laws are in Switzerland relating to watches and there are loopholes even there.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Whenever you see the term "made in" or similar it doesn't necessarily mean squat. Many countries have no laws regulating what you can call made in. In the U.S with most things it's mostly trade organizations that try and create standards for it's products. Select products are defined by law but most aren't. often times importing a product and warehousing it allows you to call it made in or sometimes doing a minor process to it gives you the right to call it made in. Probably the strictest laws are in Switzerland relating to watches and there are loopholes even there.

Correct. I once worked in a factory that assembled fairly expensive speaker cabinets for home audio. We were instructed to remove the "made in Taiwan" stickers from tweeters, and the "made in Malaysia" stickers on the speakers. Because the crossovers, grill screens, and cabinets were built on site, and all the components were assembled here they were legally allowed to market them as made in the USA.

Originally Posted by bobski

This doesn't mean it's a good razor, it means that to get it shave ready it takes 7 or 8 hours and 10 different techniques on the hones.

Did you also melt it down & reforge it ? Sorry couldn't resist.

When you get a real bad one that needs a grinder to correct the profile, you later throw 3 layers of tape on it & start on your 320 grit hone then work up & remove tape as you go.

I imagine 8 hours would have been starting @ 1k & any profiling work by hand ?

Trying to sound presidential I must say that it "depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"

Some would say that a new 'razor' is a razor because after 8-10 hours of work it can shave, others would argue that that much work to get it to shave means the object was closer to a 'razor blank' or a 'chunk of steel' than a finished 'razor'.

Or you may say, what about those well abused things that used to be razors decades or even centuries ago, and need 8-10 hours of work to be able to shave?

Then there is the question of whether that famous spoon of Murray Carter is a spoon or a razor, I mean it's a piece of quality steel shaped as a spoon, but the edge is sharpened to cut hair like a razor. For that matter there are all these 'custom razors' with alien shapes, that only resemble a razor in the ability to cut hair, not in looks, not in ergonomics, not in stropping, not in honing - are these razors?

I say, it's far more important to know what the object is, than what it is called - then each of us can be happy regardless of whether they are the type of person who'd spend dozens of hours working on something before it could shave, or they're the opposite type.

And the big question what is is remains?

Excellent points, well made, gentlemen. My persistence is linked to my inexperience. I also hate buying a razor that won't shave like my others do, so I put in the time and kept at it. So...it survived. It has certainly been a comment for others to note when they think they are getting a good deal on G & F razors. We all agree on one thing. They are an ordinary steel that needs heaps of attention to get it to cut hair. So Oz & Neil, your'e both right. But it IS going to enter the rotation for a while anyway. If it digs in one day, it's days are over. I like the scales though!

Regards Rob