Thread: Calling on the historical experts, I'm stumped! An unassuming mystery razor.

Nothing there about Charles Stewart, though Alex. I would really like to see something that ties-in C. Stewart & Co with John & William Ragg. The odds are that Raggs could well have been the makers of C. Stewart's guard razor, as Stewart is only listed as the patentee:



Although most sources record the patent as being dated to 1850, it was actually filed in July 1847. This is interesting because John & William Ragg were advertising using the 'Plantagenet' trademark in 1833 trade directories. Maybe it was not the same 'guard' model, but they had already registered the name. The right to sell Charles Stuart's Plantagenet Guard Razor was still being given to third parties by Charles Stewart in 1851, as this clipping from the New York Tribune of 1851 shows:



And a list of other distributors is attached to the patent:



But still no link to Ragg.

Regards,
Neil

Very good!, I messed it up a little
Also sorry for the strange formulated quote, next time better...
OK here it goes!


I also found an advertisement in the sheffield directory 1840, exactely thesame but without "the authorised manufacturers of the patent plantagenet guard razor"
witch led me to the idea that it was after Stewart (?)

Regards

Originally Posted by Fikira

... I also found an advertisement in the sheffield directory 1840, exactely thesame but without "the authorised manufacturers of the patent plantagenet guard razor"
witch led me to the idea that it was after Stewart (?)

Regards

Thanks for the photos! It is exactly the same style of blade as the Stewart Plantagenet:



The fact that you have seen the Ragg original in trade directories from 1840 and I have seen it in a trade directory from 1833 makes it clear that John & William Ragg were the original makers and sellers. As Stewart did not file patent until 1847 that can only mean that he bought the patent rights from Raggs, and the fact that he is listed as just 'patentee' and not 'manufacturer' leads me to believe that Raggs still made the razors for him with his details on the tang.

The clipping below comes from the Great Exhibition of 1851 at the Crystal Palace, and shows that not only was the razor patented, but the process of making it was too, presumably to stop others emulating the shape:



Not only that, but even the steel is mentioned:



Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Thanks for the photos! It is exactly the same style of blade as the Stewart Plantagenet:



The fact that you have seen the Ragg original in trade directories from 1840 and I have seen it in a trade directory from 1833 makes it clear that John & William Ragg were the original makers and sellers. As Stewart did not file patent until 1847 that can only mean that he bought the patent rights from Raggs, and the fact that he is listed as just 'patentee' and not 'manufacturer' leads me to believe that Raggs still made the razors for him with his details on the tang.

The clipping below comes from the Great Exhibition of 1851 at the Crystal Palace, and shows that not only was the razor patented, but the process of making it was too, presumably to stop others emulating the shape:



Not only that, but even the steel is mentioned:



Regards,
Neil

Goodness that's a lovely razor, Neil.

Also, I absolutely live for these kind of excavations of history.

Your welcome offcoarse! Indeed, it is exactely thesame!

But I would very much like to see the 1833 example because in the advertisement 1840 there is nothing about plantagenet,

Ragg Sheffield directory 1840.pdf


and in 1871 there is...

Ragg Plantagenet 1871 Sheff dir.pdf

I also wonder what the exact meaning is of "authorised manufacturer"...

It's great to reveal history!

Kind regards

Well - I have got the 1833 reference somewhere, but just can't lay my hands (or mouse-pointer!) on it at the moment. However, here is a reference from Tweedale dated 1839 that shows the use of the 'Plantagenet' corporate mark (ie registered as theirs by the Cutlers Guild):



It would be interesting to see the Cutlers Guild records for 1833 - 1838 to see just how far back Raggs held the 'Plantagenet' mark in their name, as it does not appear in the picture accompanying the text, so I am assuming the picture pre-dates 1839.

"Authorised Manufacturer" would tend to indicate that they were licensed to manufacture that item by a third party - presumably Charles Stewart. That would solve any problems arising by use of the corporate mark.

Regards,
Neil

Offcoarse, appearantly I overlooked that sentence in my Tweedale?

Waiting for more information before 1839 !

Thank you very very much, my latest razor in my collection has been more exciting than I imagined!

Re James Stodart-Voidmaster, I have just returned from Edinburgh & visited the Old Calton Cemetery. The Scottish Records Office at Edinburgh have a record of the inscriptions for James & David. - Jas Stodart Esq FRSL late of Russel Sq London 11-09-1823 age 63 (Note he d... at house of his uncle Rob S Esq of Queen Street);
David S Esq formerly of the island of Tobago died at Portobello 18-08-1831 age 69, wife Dorothy Ligerton 16-04-1844 age 66. The records state David is buried within these tombs in the Old Calton Cemetery, next to Burns 69. James Esq of Russel Sq London from No 52 Queen Street, 64, buried the South side within R Stodart Esq grounds. Robert Stodart buried within the West side of Stodart tomb, it appeared the tomb was at South Leith Church, but we could not find it in the cemetery! So David is buried at the Old Calton Cemetery, James is buried within his uncle Roberts grounds/tomb. The David buried at O-Calton C is not the David from 401 Strand, unless he remarried! So 3 steps forward and several to the side. Phil Stodart.

Originally Posted by Stods713

Re James Stodart-Voidmaster, I have just returned from Edinburgh & visited the Old Calton Cemetery. The Scottish Records Office at Edinburgh have a record of the inscriptions for James & David. - Jas Stodart Esq FRSL late of Russel Sq London 11-09-1823 age 63 (Note he d... at house of his uncle Rob S Esq of Queen Street);
David S Esq formerly of the island of Tobago died at Portobello 18-08-1831 age 69, wife Dorothy Ligerton 16-04-1844 age 66. The records state David is buried within these tombs in the Old Calton Cemetery, next to Burns 69. James Esq of Russel Sq London from No 52 Queen Street, 64, buried the South side within R Stodart Esq grounds. Robert Stodart buried within the West side of Stodart tomb, it appeared the tomb was at South Leith Church, but we could not find it in the cemetery! So David is buried at the Old Calton Cemetery, James is buried within his uncle Roberts grounds/tomb. The David buried at O-Calton C is not the David from 401 Strand, unless he remarried! So 3 steps forward and several to the side. Phil Stodart.

Superb! That doubly verifies what I'd found about James passing away at his uncle Robert's house in Edinburgh, it provides his wife's name (which is a lead I'd been unable to find anywhere) and it provides a new mystery about their son David.

It's possible that David was one of Robert Stodart's children, I guess. Tobago, eh? That will help considerably.

I wonder if this investigation is going to run into this branch of the Stodart family?

Thank you so much for the trip to Edinburgh. I know this is more personal to you, but my curiosity hasn't ebbed since I first discovered what the name on my razor is!

If you google Medical Antiques .Com and Surgical Instrument Set ca 1830; it displays several photos of a David Stodart case and instruments etc. If you have the computer expertise, perhaps you can transfer it to the Straight Razor site?

Cheers Phil Stodart.