Thread: J Beal & Sons, retailed by an auctioneer ??

Hi everybody, just joined today - see my "Beginners" post

I'm new to old razors, so I'm not familiar with the correct technical terms used to describe these scary objects - could somebody oblige me with a glossary ?

Thought I'd start off by adding a bit more to the J Beal & Sons razor I mentioned earlier.

The "tang" (for the want of a better term) is signed "J. Beal & Sons ENDURE Sheffield" but the side of the blade is etched "SPECIALLY MADE FOR W.A. POTTS AUCTIONEER PRESTON"

Was it normal for auctioneers to sell cut-throat razors ?

The razor looks mid to late Victoria to me, judging by my experiences with other antique metalware.

I've seen a date range of 1871-75 for this particular trademark - does that sound about right ?

The scales appear to have been made from black horn.

A defect is visible along one scale - I can't decide if this is an old repaired split or a fault in the material which has been there from new.

As I said in my beginners post, I have six different razors plus one leather case, so I'll post images of them as I clean them up.

Kind regards,

Andy

Welcome to SRP Andy. Nice old razor you have there from pre 1891 because England is not stamped on the tang, yes correct term. The scales do look to be horn and as a natural material they may develop defects or the defects become more apparent over time. Get a professional edge on it and put it back in service. Good luck with your razors.

Thanks for your comments Joed - will post pictures of the others as I clean them up. Cheers, Andy

Nice razor! I also liked the leather case in your other thread - Chas. Baker's flourished in the 1880s, mainly selling clothing - hats, boots and the like.

The history of the razor is interesting too. The company was originally called J & J Beal Ltd. Their factory was Rand Moor Cutlery Works nr Water Lane in Ranmoor. They began as scissor-makers in the 1790s. Peter Beal ran the factory and after his death in 1835 his widow Sarah and their son Joseph took over. A John Beal also entered the company - he might have been another son, we don't know for sure, hence the J & J Beal name. John sadly died of typhus in 1846. In 1849 the company went bust and was in the hands of the Official Receiver who would have broken it up and sold it to pay creditors, but Sarah borrowed enough money to buy it back again, and the census return of 1851 shows her as being a scissor and razor maker. By now another son - James - was helping out.

James moved to Sheffield as a maker of scissors and knives, nr the famous Paradise Square that housed such famous makers as John Heiffor. His brother joined him and they formed 'Joseph Beal & James Beal' trading from silver Street, then from Red Hill Works in the 1880s. Joseph died in 1878 and his sons Joseph and Arnold took over the business. James Beal died in 1910. The company traded in Corporation Street after WW1. Arnold died in 1926 and Joseph died in 1932. The company took on Ltd status in 1938. In 1956 it was bought out by a firm of machete makers.

Their marks included a teepee with a red indian on either side over the word 'Endure', a double hogshead over the word 'Endure', a hogs head on its own, the word 'Endure' on its own, a wagon being pulled by a team of horses and 'JosH Beal & Sons - V.R. - Sheffield' - so it is Victorian.

Regards,
Neil

A very nice razor! Thanks for posting it and Thanks to Neil for the information on the maker. I suppose this razor probably belonged to Mr. Potts, the auctioneer of Preston. I wonder about him as well!
And Andy! I have a nice razor made in Wigan. I will post it soon!
Tom

Hello Neil and thank you for the information.

Beginner's luck with my purchases I think - I only bought the box of razors to get the one signed by a Wigan ironmonger to add to my collection of Wigan related items.

The lot was badly described, not very well photographed and to cap it all the seller posted it to the wrong person......

I'm resisting the temptation to try to polish out the stains completely on the razors, much as I'd like to see them in pristine appearance, I hate to see antiques over-polished so that all the original tool marks vanish.

I'm using cork blocks and Peek metal polish, plus a great deal of care to keep my fingers away from the business end of the blade.

Hopefully I'm not devaluing them by doing this ?

Kind regards,

Andy

Hello Tom, thanks for getting in touch.

I look forward to seeing your Wigan razor - was it the one sold on ebay (US) recently ?

Kind regards,

Andy

Originally Posted by sharptonn

...I suppose this razor probably belonged to Mr. Potts, the auctioneer of Preston. I wonder about him as well!
... Tom

Couldn't find out much about him Tom, other than he was born in Newcastle-on-Tyne in 1873, was married to a woman called Margaret, had three daughters and two sons - the sons became watchmakers, and they all lived at 175 St. George's Street, Preston in 1911.

Victoria reigned from 1837 (Coronation in 1838) to 1901, so that (possibly!) narrows the date of the razor to between 1873 and 1901. Seeing as Mr Potts wouldn't have been shaving whilst suckling, if we assume he had some schooling and give him a bit of time to become known as an autioneer, then we could probably narrow it down more, say 1893 - 1901.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by thelocksmith

...I'm new to old razors, so I'm not familiar with the correct technical terms used to describe these scary objects - could somebody oblige me with a glossary ?...

Not a glossary (would take far too long - plenty of web articles both here and on the net available by searching) but this may help:



Note:

-'jimps' (serrations to help grip the razor) may be present on top of the tang, too.
-the 'tang' is sometimes called the 'shank'
-the thicker metal between shoulder and heel (if present) is called the 'stabiliser' some razors may have a double one
-the small circles shown on the scales are 'pins' - 'pivot pin' at the top hinges the blade and 'wedge' pin at the bottom
-the spacer material at the bottom between the scales is called the 'wedge'
-there may be a third pin near the middle of the scales called the 'plug' pin
-some people call the 'tip' the 'toe'
-this razor finishes in a 'round' point - there are many variations on the few basic types: round, oblique (aka french or irish), square, hollow, notched).

Regards,
Neil

Hello again Neil. I'm very grateful for the trouble you've taken in finding out the all the information you've posted - a sincere THANK YOU is in order.

I tried adding the razor to the database last night but it wouldn't let for some reason - are new members forbidden from making entries ?

Kind regards,

Andy