Thread: F. Herder's Double Hollow Ground D.B.G.M.

Very , very nice find.

Bob

Very nice looking blade there! Double O

Originally Posted by brooksie967

Do these 'vulcanized' scales have a distinct smell to them?

Yes they do. Kind of a funky smell. LOL

Originally Posted by Wullie

Yes they do. Kind of a funky smell. LOL

It's all coming together. I've got a few razors with this funny smell coming from the scales and are all similar material!

That's a lovely razor Brooksie (as is shaptonn's) - quite classy.

The double hollow grind wasn't for advertising purposes, by the way. It was done in the way Tom says, with diffrernt diameter grinding wheels, the purpose of which was to introduce a belly - again as pointed out by Tom that acted as a stiffener for a very hollow ground blade, particularly in the 6, 7 and 8/8 widths.

I think it could say DRGM rather than DBGM on the blade - DRGM was an acronym for Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster which registered the item throughout Germany and which was initiated in 1891 and which began to fall out of use in the late 1930s and 40s, although some items from the 1950s can stil be found with it stamped on them. DBGM - 'Deutsches Bundesgebrauchsmuster - was introduced in 1952.

Ebonite smell funny due to the high sulphur content - during 'vulcanization' of rubber sulphur is used to effect the hardening, and about 30 - 40% of the finished product is sulphur. Thomas Hancock filed for a got a patent for vulcanization before Goodyear, on May 21, 1844. Goodyears patent was awarded three weeks later.

It was also referred to as vulcanite and was used for pipe mouthpieces, pen bodies, bowling balls, lead acid battery cases, etc. Sunlight and heat degrade it, making the sulphur come to the surface. The discolouration has a range of colours through yellow, brown and greenish. Depending on the actual material and the phenols used, you can dip the parts in boiling water, sand and polish. Bleaching (50;50 bleach/water) may also work - after bleaching you need to restore the pitted surface by sanding with fine grades of paper and repolishing, either with Maas, Flitz or similar. Sometimes just simply polishing will remove light deposits, but if you are using a buffer beware of generating too much heat as this will oxidise the surface and bring the sulphur deposits to the top (although that is the point of the boiling water method - bringing it to the top them removing it).

Regards,
Neil

D.R.G.M. or Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster (German empire utility design) is usually thought to have had some value at law, but such was not the case: in reality the mark served little purpose other than acting as an implication that the design to which it was attached was no more than an ersatz (substitute) pattern. It was, in a sense, an apology for an inferior type.

I don't think it meant that the product was inferior at all (and calling it Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster is wrong as the 's' at the end of Reich is lost - it shouldn't be) - at least not according to this website:

"... The acronym D.R.G.M. with or without punctuation stands for Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster, meaning that the design or function of an item was officially registered inside all of the Germany states and not only locally registered as it was the case before the introduction of centralized registration. Note that many people quote this acronym as standing for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchsmuster, which is grammatically wrong and also omits the letter 's' after Reich. This results in shifting the weight of pronunciation on 'Deutsches Reich' alone, but this acronym has nothing to do with the Third Reich as many sellers want to imply so to catch the attention of certain 'collectors'. (German Reich Registered Design)

The D.R.G.M. signifies "Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster" and is a design or use patent somewhat similar a "Registered" mark that provides an initial three years protection extendable for another three years to six maximum. D.R.G.M. registration was introduced and were first issued starting in 1891. However, if you are dating items you should hold in mind that even during Allied occupation up until 1949, registration procedures remained untouched and still used the D.R.G.M. registration documents, which of course explains why D.R.G.M. marks can be found on products actually manufactured up until 1952 as the registration itself was valid for three years. As from the end of October 1952, all registrations were definately marked with 'Deutsches Bundesgebrauchsmuster' (D.B.G.M.) or simply with 'Gebrauchsmuster' or 'Gebrauchsmusterschutz'.

As already noted, the D.R.G.M. registration offered a basic copyright protection for the duration of three years and included the right to indicate the item status by marking the registered items with the D.R.G.M. acronym. It was left to the registration owner to include the registration number as the D.R.G.M. marking alone was the element with legal character. The actual result of such a registration (the form of protection) was called Gebrauchsmusterschutz.

D.R.G.M. registered products were protected either for their way of intended use or design only and this did not include patent protection. Patent rights were secured by applying for a Deutsches Reichspatent (D.R.P.), so even if many people use the term 'D.R.G.M-Patent' it is factually wrong. Reason for this mix-up was that the D.R.G.M. registration in colloquial language was also known as 'kleines Reichspatent' which literally stands for 'small Imperial patent' but actually was meant as 'poor people's patent' and made fun of the fact that many manufacturers could not afford the fees needed to register a full patent. One should take into count that German patent registration fees (as was openly criticized during the year 1906) where two and a half times higher than in England - and 36 (!!!) times higher than in the US.

The acronym D.R.P. with or without punctuation stands for Deutsches Reichspatent which literally means 'German imperial patent'. Note that many people quote this acronym as standing for "Deutsche Reich Patent", an original and full patent with up to 15 years protection.

Such a patent registration was based on the 'Reichspatentgesetz' (German imperial patent law) which had been verified by the German authorities on May 25th 1877 after a long and hard struggle to introduce a set of rules and regulations since the first ideas for such a law had been discussed by the Prussian Borad of Trade back in July 1853. Even if it had taken 24 years for the German authorities to set it up, it's introduction was on extreme short notice as it was declared operational as from July 1st 1877, a mere month after its verification.

Of course such a unified patent law was quite spectacular at that time and so one would believe that the first patent itself would have been something special. But the first 'Reichspatent' was very unspectacular and was issued on the name of Joh. Zeltner who owned the 'Nürnberger Ultramarinfabrik' and had patented his method of synthetically manufacturing Ultramarine, a coloring substance that is still used even today. Patent 532 by the way was issued to Nikolaus August Otto and describes an extremely peculiar device named the 'Otto engine' - which of course is the anchestor of todays car engines.

It should be noted that many manufacturers could not afford the fees needed to register for a full patent. One should take into count that German patent registration fees (as was openly criticized during the year 1906) where two and a half times higher than in England - and 36 (!!!) times higher than in the US..."

It looks to me from that article that other considerations come into play such as date, monetary cost, and patent protection are more to the point.

The razor doesn't look ersatz or inferior at all!

Regards,
Neil

According to "The swords and bayonet makers of Imperial Germany", 1973:
The most important was D.R.P.u.A.P. or Deutsches Reich Patent und Ausländische Patente (German and foreing patents): this mark was rarely.
The stamp D.R.P., or Deutsches Reich Patent, was the usual internal protection, signifying the grant of German letters patent only.
D.R.G.M. or Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster (German empire utility design) is usually thought to have had some value at law, but such was not the case: in reality the mark served little purpose other than acting as an implication that the design to which it was attached was no more than an ersatz (substitute) pattern. It was, in a sense, an apology for an inferior type.
The mark Ges. Gesch. or GEZETZLICH GESCHÜTZT - protected by law - indicated that the weapon had been registered with the Deutsches Patentamt and granted some protection from those who might otherwise be tempted to copy it. THis mark was used to signify a design registry in which there was insufficient novelty to justify a grant of letters patent.

There are some thoughts on maintaining vulcanite on this site Leica FAQ — Vulcanite , scroll down to maintenance . It may or may not be useful on razor scales but could not hurt any.

Bob

Sweet razor. I have been using a similar non bellied herder 77 with similar scales. It takes a very nice edge.