Thread: Filly or Henckels for a not so experienced shaver

Too bad there's so little done in the way of real comparisons.

I read many posts where folks say a razor is better than average or is one of their best shavers, but when questions like the OP's are asked, everyone backs off and says it doesn't really matter. Why fall back on cliches, platitudes, and appeals to subjectivity, instead of qualified recommendations?

Another poster hinted that there's more to the question, such as edge holding, ease of sharpening, &c. Perhaps the differences in geometry, materials, and heat treat are negligible or highly inconsistent? I'd love to know how products compare on real criteria, even if the differences are minor.

I'll be honest. The best shave of my life came witha razor I got on eBay for $40. It's an old Wade and Butcher 5/8 wedge tha TI recently had honed. It shaved better than myp Philly or Friodur.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I'll be honest. The best shave of my life came witha razor I got on eBay for $40. It's an old Wade and Butcher 5/8 wedge tha TI recently had honed. It shaved better than myp Philly or Friodur.

Out of curiosity, would you attribute that performance to the fundamental geometry of the razor, the weight, or perhaps to the honing? W&B has been getting a lot of attention lately, so it's interesting to find out what people like about them.

Originally Posted by Tierdaen

Too bad there's so little done in the way of real comparisons.

I read many posts where folks say a razor is better than average or is one of their best shavers, but when questions like the OP's are asked, everyone backs off and says it doesn't really matter. Why fall back on cliches, platitudes, and appeals to subjectivity, instead of qualified recommendations?

Another poster hinted that there's more to the question, such as edge holding, ease of sharpening, &c. Perhaps the differences in geometry, materials, and heat treat are negligible or highly inconsistent? I'd love to know how products compare on real criteria, even if the differences are minor.

You have to seperate the Face and the Razor

What I mean is most people rate the razor by how it "Feels" on their face, this is pretty much useless to anyone else, most people make those statements without even explaining how that razor was honed, or to explain that this is a Type (Grind, Size, Steel) that appeals to them.. Basically it is all personal opinion...


I find to my way of thinking, how the razor behaves on the hones tells me more about the actual quality of the razor, I can feel the steel, I can see how even the grind was done, and how well the razor was balanced, and how hand friendly it is with fit and finish.. The temper and the hardness of the steel, along with how well that hardening and tempering was done can all be felt on the stones much better then the face..

The razor of course has to also shave well, but keep in mind that is prejudiced by the persons face, ie: I don't like the way the Heavy Sheffield razors shave, they just do not feel good to me, does that make them bad razors ??? No, and I know this because of what I feel and see on the hones, they just don't agree with my face...


Just some thoughts


To the op

Taking the face out of the equation Filarmonicas are an excellent razor, the steel and grinds are exceptional, only the very very end of their production runs, the very newest razors do you find flaws..

The Henckels have a few generations (IMHO) of razors, the older Vintage ones are exceptional, the Bigger newer Friodurs are good razors, but they lack the skill of the vintage ones in the grind, the steel is very good.. The third generation which are the newest are good razors but again not quite as nice as the Vintage ones...

I have both, the Filarmonica 14's I have all provide a better shave than the Friodur.

Originally Posted by Tierdaen

Out of curiosity, would you attribute that performance to the fundamental geometry of the razor, the weight, or perhaps to the honing? W&B has been getting a lot of attention lately, so it's interesting to find out what people like about them.

I don't think you can dismiss the honing element. But, that being said, I've had several blades honed by the same man and the W&B seems to provide a better shave. I have a wedge and hollow ground. They both are tip top.

Tierdaen

It is almost impossible to say what the best razor is for everyone to use because aside from the basics like type of steel used, the razors dimensions and who made it everything else is a subjective opinion. There are just too many different things that add up to a good shave from a razor. I have had a razor that went from giving good shave to very good and smoother shaves by just changing the finisher I was using. The changed my perception of the razor. Someone else may not perceive it that way. In the end I have had excellent shaves from razors sized 4/8 to 8/8 from different makers in different grinds and steels and different blade shapes. You can't determine if a car will suit you based on tech specs along you have to drive a few to see what suits you best and even then somebody else will feel your choice is wrong because it doesn't suit them specifically. That is why most people waffle a bit when it comes razors and opinions on them.

Bob

Afraid I didn't suggest that one should claim a razor to be the best for everyone, nor that it was possible. I simply think there is too much of a habit among users here to fall back on the stale subjectivity cliche. There are more interesting things to be learned about razors, I think, than what most seem to settle for. I was just lamenting, as I suspect it can't really be helped much. Good luck to the OP and apologies that I can't offer anything useful.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I don't think you can dismiss the honing element. But, that being said, I've had several blades honed by the same man and the W&B seems to provide a better shave. I have a wedge and hollow ground. They both are tip top.

Followed by the statement "to my Face"
What I was saying is that same W&B could have multiple other flaws that you might not even be aware of, unless you slide that razor across the hones and learn what is really going on with all the elements of the build, then you are simply saying "It shaves Good"
I am not arguing that fact, but it is only one element of an excellent razor..
In fact your statement that you had the razors Honed means that you really don't know much about the true quality of the build.. I had this same discussion with one of the most prolific Review writers on this very forum in the past. He was writing review after review and had never honed one of his own razors, I tried to explain the same thing to him, that there is much more to a quality build then simply "It shaves good"
One of the razors he was touting was a brand that is known to every one that hones as being very prone to micro-chipping, and the edge has to be finessed out during honing.. Yet he was explaining how they were a better razor then a Filarmonica.. I explained that near every Filamonica was a dream on the hones with even geometry throughout the grind, an excellent temper that was designed to draw out a keen smooth shave... His response was, "But it shaves good" I explained that wasn't the razor, that was the skill of the guy that honed it for him..

But this discusion could circle back to exactly that, If it shaves good that is all I care about, so it could become a circular arguement Once you hone a few different brands and types you will begin to see the other side