Thread: Tennis brand razors - need help deciding

Originally Posted by RADisorder

The blade is stained as you can see in the picture. It is oxidation, rust, but I hesitate to call it rust. Stain is a better description. The reason I say that is that the metal to the touch is perfect. You cannot feel any difference in the texture of the metal as you feel the blade. If it was fully developed rust, you could feel a rougher texture, or something that was tactily different."

In the restoration forum we call it 'rot'.

The fact that you can't feel much difference between metal and the black just means that the corruption of the blade is happening underneath the surface, where it will make an ugly big hole that is pretty much impossible to fix, once it breaks the surface. Kinda like a festering splinter underneath your skin.

Originally Posted by Bruno

In the restoration forum we call it 'rot'.

The fact that you can't feel much difference between metal and the black just means that the corruption of the blade is happening underneath the surface, where it will make an ugly big hole that is pretty much impossible to fix, once it breaks the surface. Kinda like a festering splinter underneath your skin.

Got it. What would the difference be, if anything, between rot and patina?

Originally Posted by RADisorder

Got it. What would the difference be, if anything, between rot and patina?

Both are types of metal corrosion. However, steel that has accumulated a thin coating of corrosion, ie a 'patina', over many years is not the same as metal that has corrosive pits in it. In fact the thin patina acts like a protective layer - it is stable, and with moderate care the blade will last for many, many years to come. With pitting we have corrosive elements or particles that attach at random intervals to the steel blade, forming small differences in potential between themselves and the underlying layer (blade) that spreads both outwards and downwards, as Bruno said it oftern travels just under the surface and when the surface is abraded pits are revealed that are more extensive than first thought.

You could call the bad stuff an 'unstable patina' that gives rise to pitting. The following gives an idea of the electro-chemical processes involved:



Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Both are types of metal corrosion. However, steel that has accumulated a thin coating of corrosion, ie a 'patina', over many years is not the same as metal that has corrosive pits in it. In fact the thin patina acts like a protective layer - it is stable, and with moderate care the blade will last for many, many years to come. With pitting we have corrosive elements or particles that attach at random intervals to the steel blade, forming small differences in potential between themselves and the underlying layer (blade) that spreads both outwards and downwards, as Bruno said it oftern travels just under the surface and when the surface is abraded pits are revealed that are more extensive than first thought.

You could call the bad stuff an 'unstable patina' that gives rise to pitting. The following gives an idea of the electro-chemical processes involved:


Regards,
Neil

I like how the video shows how quickly a razor can begin to rust if exposed to water. I'm don't know much about knives, but I vaguely know some people do a forced patina to bring in the protective concept you mentioned.

It's fun looking around the workshop forum. There is so much new info there for someone like myself and even if I don't get into restoration much of it seems like stuff any vintage razor buyer would want to know. Depending on the cost of tools/materials I think this might be something I'd want to tinker with though. I'd love to be able to better select a great Tennis restore from auction pictures one day. Thanks for the response. I know all the info is out there, but for someone brand new the back and forth can help with the learning curve.

Between shaving with a straight for the first time and looking through the workshop forum I've got plenty to keep me busy.

Also, patina is extremely thin - you can't actually feel it - and more importantly: it is pretty even along the entire surface. I've created patina on new razors / knives by just dipping them in Ferric chloride, then rinsing them under running water and drying them thoroughly. The patina protects the surface. And esp on kitchen knives this can be a good thing.

As soon as you see distinct spots or pits, we're no longer talking about patina (which by definition is a surface phenomenon) but about rot. And as with rot in vegetables, what you see on the surface is often a lot more benign than what goes on inside. I've restored razors that had those black marks on the surface. the fact that you can't feel anything special is irrelevant. Because as soon as you start sanding or scratching, you remove the thin surface layer and you find an ugly blackpit that can be very deep and wider than the surface spot.

It's kind of like ripping the scab of a festering sore.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Also, patina is extremely thin - you can't actually feel it - and more importantly: it is pretty even along the entire surface. I've created patina on new razors / knives by just dipping them in Ferric chloride, then rinsing them under running water and drying them thoroughly. The patina protects the surface. And esp on kitchen knives this can be a good thing.

As soon as you see distinct spots or pits, we're no longer talking about patina (which by definition is a surface phenomenon) but about rot. And as with rot in vegetables, what you see on the surface is often a lot more benign than what goes on inside. I've restored razors that had those black marks on the surface. the fact that you can't feel anything special is irrelevant. Because as soon as you start sanding or scratching, you remove the thin surface layer and you find an ugly blackpit that can be very deep and wider than the surface spot.

It's kind of like ripping the scab of a festering sore.

What you cleared up for me here is the distinction that patina usually covers the entire surface.

My first razor should arrive in the mail probably today or tomorrow. I'm wondering if I do not have that scab ripped off eventually, how long the blade will remain smooth to the touch? I know it depends on the razor.

I've been maintaining my safety razor with alcohol after use. I've got a screwtop plastic container and I'll loosen the blade, then swish it around before it goes in the medicine cabinet. I don't think the alcohol damages the razor head, but dries it and the blade. This may not work for straight razors (dry out/damage scales?), but is just a thought I'm having considering the rust problem.

I imagine the towel dry for the straight razor blade and paper towel for scales is sufficient, but wondering if anyone maintains with alcohol in any way as well.

In any case, it looks like understanding rust is one of the keys to razor maintenance and restoration.

Pics and info about Rust - vs - Patina This really shows in pics what Dylan was trying to explain to you in post #13



http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...ml#post1097633


What is the Difference between Black rust or Spider rust and the truly malicious stuff we fondly call Devil's Spit ????

The feel,

if you run yer fingernail over Black rust you can feel the damage, Devil's spit is smooth to the touch it reveals itself as you start to clean it up and you learn that the "Stain" isn't... This is how it recieved it's name

Gotta love the Tennis razors. I sold a very minty one here on the classifieds as it was just not getting the use it deserved and it freed up some room for a stone I was looking at. Regardless of which one you pick, good luck with it!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Pics and info about Rust - vs - Patina This really shows in pics what Dylan was trying to explain to you in post #13



http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...ml#post1097633

Nice restoration work!

I've always had some idea of what patina looked like, but I think I got confused by references to it on what looked like rusty razors on various forums. Occasionally posters outright misidentify patina and other times it is referenced in a picture where you don't really see it easily or it may be buried underneath. I really like this post in "The Rustiques Club" thread. That thing really had some grey/silver/shiny/depth underneath the red, didn't it.

Thanks again to all of you guys who restore for posting. As I'm getting interested in tinkering with honing/polishing/sanding/restoration, I realize there would be about zero chance I'd follow up if it were not for this forum.