Thread: #78 F. Herder ABR Sohn, 5/8. Picked it up, curious to history, probable age etc.

The company was established in 1727 by Peter Herder - this is when the ace of spades was registered - the oldest trademark in Germany.
1762 - company owned by Abraham Herder and Johann Peter Herder after death of Peter Herder.
When Abraham Herder's son Johann Herder (b 1761) joined the company, Abraham named it to Joh Abr. Herder & Sne.
1839 - Abraham's grandson Friedrich Herder taken on as partner.
1841 - company re-named to Friedrich Herder Abr. Sohn.
1848 - crossed keys trademark.

There were no more Herders, so the company name did not change.

1887 - Company taken over by Gustav Weyersberg.
1908 - Gustav's son Carl Weyersberg takes over company with Hermann Bick.
1927 - 'Constant' trademark for stainless steel knives.
1931 - 'Don Carlos' mark for pro knives and high carbon scissors.
1993 - company goes bankrupt with the Weyersberg and Bick families still as main shareholders.

Regarding the change of name in 1915 to "Friedrich Herder and Son' I have only seen this in one reference book on german bayonets and daggers. I have seen posts about people talking of F Herder and Son bayonets, knives, razors, etc, but when pics are supplied with the relevant posts they all have Friedrich Herder Abr. Sohn on them.

Perhaps there is an alternative mark - but why? There were no Herders in the company at that time, only Weyersbergs and Bicks. I have seen a narrow bladed dagger with 'F. Herder. A. S.' on it - perhaps someone mistook the 'A.S.' as 'and son' whereas it would more likely be 'u. S.' - 'und Sohn' or '& S' - clearly space was short on the dagger and 'A. S.' means 'Abr. Sohn'.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, though! but by pictures, not reproductions of pages from knife and sword and bayonet collectors that are merely printed. In my support here is the front page of a Herder catalogue from 1938:



The blade looks to me like it could be from the early half of the 1900s. The fact that 'Germany' is not on it does not matter - hardly any of the makers that made edged weapons for the Third Reich in WW2 appended 'Germany' - just Solingen, as witness the 'F Herder A. S.' mark from that era:



Regards,
Neil