Thread: Huge Gervais

It is a Jules Gervias. Certainly in the time-frame, I would think, quite distinguished-looking.

I am wondering about the wording on your razor, Rolf. It seems to indicate that Jules succeeded Nicolas?

Originally Posted by RolfdeHaan

Jules gervais-courtellemont (1863-1931), paysages, jardins, intérieurs, c.1910, 14 autochromes d'époque., étiquette avec la mention du photographe sur une des plaques., 9 x 12 cm. (3.5 x 4.7 in.)

could this be Jules Gervais........

Sorry Rolf, but sadly the answer is no.

Firstly the surname is not right, it is Gervais-Courtellemont, not Gervais. Secondly your man was french, not belgian, and raised in Algeria. Lastly, he was a photographer, not a cutler.

Regards,
Neil

I suppose, in retrospect, One need not speak French to decipher that, Neal!

So what about the wording on Rolf's tang?

Originally Posted by sharptonn

I suppose, in retrospect, One need not speak French to decipher that, Neal!

So what about the wording on Rolf's tang?

Post number 6

Not at all sure without doing much more research, but from the scant info available so far I would list them, in order of working periods, Jules first, then Nicolas then Emmanuel.

Excluding Emmanuel (for the moment, as he seems to be mainly concerned with firearms and ancillaries) we are left with Nicolas and Jules. Jules seems to be very well known to shotgun enthusiasts, but it seems he made cutlery. This could be an error, though, as tbe info comes from french sites that appear as confused as us!

Something of minor interest has arisen though, namely a line of knife and fork cutlery simply stamped 'Gervais A Anvers' or Gervais of Antwerp. The first 'a' has an accent over it, but it is stamped in uppercase, and could well be the first stanchion in the Gervais razor logo where we have a grindwheel driven by a belt, thd spindle of which is supported bt two uppercase 'A's - a Anvers, I like to think.

The 'Gervais A Anvers' cutlery stamp has been attributed to Jules Gervais, but I would like more concrete proof of this...

FWIW I am also suspicious why Nicolas Gervais appears above the name of Jules Gervais if Jules is the successor. It would be more usual to find it the other way around. For instance, it could be read as 'Nicolas, successor to Jules' and even tbe word, 'successeur' translates as 'inheritor of' as well as 'successor to'.

Looking at how modern french uses the word does not help as it appears to be the way we would commonly use it, but like most languages it would be normal for the language of an earlier century to be more flowery and used in a way we would not expect

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Not at all sure without doing much more research, but from the scant info available so far I would list them, in order of working periods, Nicolas first, then Jules, then Emmanuel.

Excluding Emmanuel (for the moment, as he seems to be mainly concerned with firearms and ancillaries) we are left with Nicolas and Jules. Jules seems to be very well known to shotgun enthusiasts, but it seems he made cutlery. This could be an error, though, as tbe info comes from french sites that appear as confused as us!

Something of minor interest has arisen though, namely a line of knife and fork cutlery simply stamped 'Gervais A Anvers' or Gervais of Antwerp. The first 'a' has an accent over it, but it is stamped in uppercase, and could well be the first stanchion in the Gervais razor logo where we have a grindwheel driven by a belt, thd spindle of which is supported bt two uppercase 'A's - a Anvers, I like to think.

The 'Gervais A Anvers' cutlery stamp has been attributed to Jules Gervais, but I would like more concrete proof of this...

FWIW I am also suspicious why Nicolas Gervais appears above the name of Jules Gervais if Jules is the successor. It would be more usual to find it the other way around. For instance, it could be read as 'Nicolas, successor to Jules' and even tbe word, 'successeur' translates as 'inheritor of' as well as 'successor to'.

Looking at how modern french uses the word does not help as it appears to be the way we would commonly use it, but like most languages it would be normal for the language of an earlier century to be more flowery and used in a way we would not expect

Regards,
Neil

Well done, Neil. Quite why I asked. It seems the 'succ' is possibly cut short on the tang? I had wondered if it inferred Successor 'to', 'of', 'from','by', or what? I suppose knowing their ages or other business activities might help explain. We see makers ride the coattails of others as in 'late', but 'succ' I have not seen.

Originally Posted by Martin103

Post number 6

Sooooory, Martin! Flew right by me! Makes sense, though!

Originally Posted by RolfdeHaan

Hi Gents,

ok this will be my next goal a trip to Antwerpen lets find out where to go..
Longue rue de L'Hopital no:6. and Rue de Tournon 29. do not appear in Antwerpen on google maps.... they are in France... or where these streets distroyed in the War???

rue de l'h?pital - Traduction anglaise – Linguee for more info go to work now lets get it on :-)

No - Longue Rue de l'Hopital still exists, for sure - it is mentioned in the 1930s, in the 1950s by the Royal British Philatelic Society and it is still there today. BUT - you have to use its proper name to find it:



So, we must hunt for Lange Gasthuis-straat. We find that it runs parallel to Leopoldstraat and runs into the much narrower Korte Gasthuisstraat:



But we must zoom-in to make it appear:



And here is what it looked like circa 1903:



Regards,
Neil

A bit more about the early history of Marche au Lait....

It seems that the Gilson mentioned in one of my earlier posts was a cutler in an 1838 listing:



He has become known as an armourer, sword maker and cutler as early as 1840, as his name appears in the 1840 Commercial Guide Book of Addresses for Antwerp for that year:



The other Gilson (not Celestin) is a 'cordonnier' - a cobbler/shoemaker. Celestin Gilson also appears in 1841, still at Marche au Lait:



Note that there is no mention of a Gervais in any of these guides - they were either at another address or newcomers to the area, not appearing until we find both Jules and Nicolas Gervais in the 1878 listing I posted earlier. Note that Celestin Gilson also appears in that 1878 listing - as 'particulier' which means a private citizen - he was probably retired - and not at Marche au Lait, but Rue Simon, which leads me to believe that somewhere between 1841 and 1878 the Gervais clan acquired Gilson's workshop/workplace in Marche au Lait.

Also, the 'à Anvers' seems to have been used by any person from Antwerp, meaning simply 'of Antwerp'. However, I still think it is the origin of the double-A stanchions in the Gervais logo on razors, this one from Tom's razor:



Regards,
Neil

a picture of the street now a day...