Thread: At what point did your shaves improve?

The improvements I've had have come as a series of breakthroughs, not anything gradual.

This morning I had one of the best, and most efficient, shaves since I started shaving with a straight. I owe that shave to a few breakthroughs I had recently. One involved applying my own experience; one involved stropping.

First, I noticed that with almost every shave, no matter what length of beard or style of prep, it was never as comfortable as I thought it should be shaving WTG down my cheeks and chin. It always tugged more and took more effort than I thought. So, I would hone and strop, and try again -- same results. I tried new stone combinations and more stropping. But, I noticed when I would go ATG, it felt like butter, and gave me a close shave. The WTG strokes tugged just hard enough, that I would sometimes not want to use a straight, and just usea cartridge. So, the breakthrough: just skip the WTG, and begin ATG. Works like charm, and saves a bunch of time. I could hardly believe it. I took off a 6 day beard this way -- what would usually be a WTG struggle. Attacking it ATG was smooth and easy. Same goes for my chin -- going about half way up it ATG starting at my throat eliminated the whiskers that always slowed and tugged when I was going WTG. This eliminated the areas where I experienced the tugging. Now, once again, I can hardly wait to shave everyday. This approach basically eliminated an entire pass for most of the real estate on my face -- and was as comfortable as I always thought it could be.

The other breakthrough I had was with stropping. I simply do less of it. I was convinced I could hone. The WTG tugging made me think I was failing in some way, until the ATG. If ATG works, it must be honed properly. But, it seemed my comfort wouldn't last that long. I got a better strop (a nice Walking Horse Split Grain with real linen) and applied the accumulated knowledge from this forum. I was finding that I just wasn't getting anything out of it, so I did more laps. I think I was up to 40 on linen and 70 on leather. My face was telling me that maybe I'm making it worse by stropping. So, I grabbed a razor that was giving me trouble, honed it. Did 10 laps on CrOx, 10 laps linene, 20 laps leather. I haven't had a problem since. I also tried this with a Kanenaga kamisori that wasn't as comfortable as I thought it should be, and seemed to be getting worse. Same result. I'm very happy now, and getting consistently close, comfortable shaves no matter my beard length. This seems to fly in the face of a lot of the stropping wisdom around here but for one thing -- it's working. Before every shave now, I do 10 laps on linen, and 20 on leather, as lightly as I can, then the first pass ATG from collar to cheekbone. This has worked on all of my razors: Mastro Livi New Grind, Gens #14, Kanenaga Kamisori, Dovo Special Half Hollow.

Cheers,

Jack

Originally Posted by jackslimpson

The improvements I've had have come as a series of breakthroughs, not anything gradual.

This morning I had one of the best, and most efficient, shaves since I started shaving with a straight. I owe that shave to a few breakthroughs I had recently. One involved applying my own experience; one involved stropping.

First, I noticed that with almost every shave, no matter what length of beard or style of prep, it was never as comfortable as I thought it should be shaving WTG down my cheeks and chin. It always tugged more and took more effort than I thought. So, I would hone and strop, and try again -- same results. I tried new stone combinations and more stropping. But, I noticed when I would go ATG, it felt like butter, and gave me a close shave. The WTG strokes tugged just hard enough, that I would sometimes not want to use a straight, and just usea cartridge. So, the breakthrough: just skip the WTG, and begin ATG. Works like charm, and saves a bunch of time. I could hardly believe it. I took off a 6 day beard this way -- what would usually be a WTG struggle. Attacking it ATG was smooth and easy. Same goes for my chin -- going about half way up it ATG starting at my throat eliminated the whiskers that always slowed and tugged when I was going WTG. This eliminated the areas where I experienced the tugging. Now, once again, I can hardly wait to shave everyday. This approach basically eliminated an entire pass for most of the real estate on my face -- and was as comfortable as I always thought it could be.

The other breakthrough I had was with stropping. I simply do less of it. I was convinced I could hone. The WTG tugging made me think I was failing in some way, until the ATG. If ATG works, it must be honed properly. But, it seemed my comfort wouldn't last that long. I got a better strop (a nice Walking Horse Split Grain with real linen) and applied the accumulated knowledge from this forum. I was finding that I just wasn't getting anything out of it, so I did more laps. I think I was up to 40 on linen and 70 on leather. My face was telling me that maybe I'm making it worse by stropping. So, I grabbed a razor that was giving me trouble, honed it. Did 10 laps on CrOx, 10 laps linene, 20 laps leather. I haven't had a problem since. I also tried this with a Kanenaga kamisori that wasn't as comfortable as I thought it should be, and seemed to be getting worse. Same result. I'm very happy now, and getting consistently close, comfortable shaves no matter my beard length. This seems to fly in the face of a lot of the stropping wisdom around here but for one thing -- it's working. Before every shave now, I do 10 laps on linen, and 20 on leather, as lightly as I can, then the first pass ATG from collar to cheekbone. This has worked on all of my razors: Mastro Livi New Grind, Gens #14, Kanenaga Kamisori, Dovo Special Half Hollow.

Cheers,

Jack

I wonder if you were viewing atg as the north/south pass. As well it may be but, against the grain can be any direction. Maybe that is the way your hair grows? Not disregarding what your saying at all just gaining some understanding

Originally Posted by ncraigtrn

I wonder if you were viewing atg as the north/south pass. As well it may be but, against the grain can be any direction. Maybe that is the way your hair grows? Not disregarding what your saying at all just gaining some understanding

Good question, Ncraigtrn: I was using WTG as a North to South pass (from cheekbone to collar); and, ATG, as a South to North pass (collar to cheekbone). It's the exact opposite of what my expectations of ease would be, and much of the experience gleaned from this Forum. My breakthrough was to embrace something I learned on this forum (can't remember from whom), "The correct technique is the one that works." Why it works, I think is that the hair on my face grows in kind of a swirl pattern, no straight grain, same for my neck.

Cheers,

Jack

One of the biggest leaps for me, don't know if this works for everyone else, but it seems to give great results for me.

I use short strokes with the razor in conjunction with stretching the skin.

After doing an initial long stroke, by this I mean the razor starts at the top of my cheek bone and in one pass I basically go all the way to the neck. I will then re-lather, and use much shorter WTG strokes in the same area, really taking my time and feeling to make sure I get all the whiskers.

Another lather, then XTG on the cheek area, again using short strokes to and touch to feel any whiskers.

Then an ATG pass from the neck, all the way up to the cheeks. On the neck area, I will use more of a slanted ATG stroke, as that's always been a tough area, some call it a scything stroke, but again, short strokes using fingers on the other hand to stretch and feel if any whiskers are remaining. Doing this, I can get a BBS pretty much everytime if I want.

Usually, I'll just use the long sweeping strokes for WTG, XTG and ATG and end up with a DFS, which suits me fine, cause then I can shave the next day if I really want to, or have to shave after two days. If I go BBS, I can probably get away with 3 days without looking like a rube....YMMV.

Originally Posted by jackslimpson

Good question, Ncraigtrn: I was using WTG as a North to South pass (from cheekbone to collar); and, ATG, as a South to North pass (collar to cheekbone). It's the exact opposite of what my expectations of ease would be, and much of the experience gleaned from this Forum. My breakthrough was to embrace something I learned on this forum (can't remember from whom), "The correct technique is the one that works." Why it works, I think is that the hair on my face grows in kind of a swirl pattern, no straight grain, same for my neck.

Cheers,

Jack

See thats exactly what improved my shaves too. I viewed wtg as north to south and against the grain as south to north. When I went with wtg as the direction of hair growth and wtg the opposite of my wtg. Things were a lot smoother.

Hope anyone starting out catches what we're saying.

Originally Posted by Phrank

One of the biggest leaps for me, don't know if this works for everyone else, but it seems to give great results for me.

I use short strokes with the razor in conjunction with stretching the skin.....YMMV.

I'm with Phrank...and it's a given that there must be a great edge at hand...but stretching and short strokes and you are on your way...

Smooth Shaving...

One of the things I did immediately while learning to wet shave was stopped using long strokes. Mainly it was out of fear of cutting myself. Using the short gentle strokes in conjunction with "proper" stretching ( that took a while to learn) has landed me in the bliss of BBS almost every time. Even the bad shaves are way better than the old way.

Newest breakthrough has came of recent. Not so much in the making the shave that much better, but more in the confidence area is the use of different styles of razors. I used a CJB for the first time today thanks to MJC. Nailed a great shave an it was actually faster than normal. So maybe not a ah ha moment, but for sure a confidence booster.

Well I've only recently turned the corner, I've had two weeks now of really nice close comfortable shaves. My two biggest challenges with whiskers are a dimpled chin (no it doesn't stretch or move), and whiskers which grow sideways across my neck (some of them lay flat too). Well I've been methodical about this and kept a diary. Read lots of material on SRP. Somewhere around the 50 shave mark it just started to click.

1- Good honing and stropping to maintain a really sharp blade.
2- Beard map understood and studied with a plan for each region.
3- Good beard preparation.
4- Proper skin traction and stretching.
5- More WTG and XTG passes before ATG.

So today was another leap forward, I've mentioned using a simulator blade to practice blade strokes. My diary started to develop a pattern of a little more irritation and not as close a shave on the non-dominant side of my neck.

Hmm? So paid close attention to both sides and guess what? I was doing different things! Oh I was using the non-dominant hand, but with a different grip, motion, and blade angle. Huh! So this morning I used the dominant hand to teach the non-dominant hand. Sounds funny, but I tried as much as possible to make my non-dominant hand do everything the way the dominant hand was doing it (grip, motion, blade angle). I even noticed the dominant hand was naturally using one finger on my jaw as a touch point for better control. So I copied that too. Hey there is a reason it is called your dominant hand (it works better and it is the one you prefer).

Okay, the results? Tremendous! I just completed a perfectly BBS shave with no irritation at all across both sides of my neck! This was something I could absolutely not do in the beginning (or even close to it). Efficient, effective, and a huge leap forward. What a shave!

This idea of letting one hand teach the other is a bit of a mental game and it comes from piano. If you are right handed your right hand works better and that is the melody line. Your left hand plays the bass line primarily. Well if the bass line is complicated, sometimes you can just learn to play it with the right hand. For some crazy reason putting it in one hand, your ears, and your brain (at least for me) makes it easier to get working in my left hand. Now I can't very well shave both sides of my neck with my dominant hand, but fortunately my neck is symmetric. So what works for the dominant hand will work for the non-dominant head. So in a matter of speaking I let one hand teach the other.

I'd take the blade off my face and look carefully at the grip, then practice the identical (but mirrored) grip in the other hand. For some crazy reason it works for me (YMMV), I just did a perfectly BBS shave in minimum number of strokes on my neck!

Woohoo! This keeps getting better! There is no part about it for me that is coming quickly, but with results like this it is definitely worth the wait!

Best,

Ed

What everyone said - a month or two to get comfortable; three months or more to get regularly good shaves; a year to perfect a guillotine pass for jawline and neck. See the Pathe video* - the wicked-fast old guy with the dirty fingernails was an artiste.

Finally, more, better, stropping jumped my game considerably. This morning quick-ish three pass with a 7/8 Kropp came off a dozen passes (or more) on seatbelt webbing then another 60 (or more) on leather. My previous 10/30 or 20/40 didn't really "cut" it so to speak. Stropping makes it all right after everything else.

* Shaving Issue Title - Why Bring That Up? - British Pathé

Originally Posted by MisterMoo

What everyone said - a month or two to get comfortable; three months or more to get regularly good shaves; a year to perfect a guillotine pass for jawline and neck. See the Pathe video* - the wicked-fast old guy with the dirty fingernails was an artiste.

Finally, more, better, stropping jumped my game considerably. This morning quick-ish three pass with a 7/8 Kropp came off a dozen passes (or more) on seatbelt webbing then another 60 (or more) on leather. My previous 10/30 or 20/40 didn't really "cut" it so to speak. Stropping makes it all right after everything else.

* Shaving Issue Title - Why Bring That Up? - British Pathé

Agree with the stropping - develop and improve on the fundamentals of stropping. Then do lots. I was the same, 20/40 maybe....now, 40 on the felt after a shave, and 60 on the leather, then 20 linen before a shave and 100 on the leather - every since I saw the pic of an edge after 50 laps on leather vs 100 laps on leather - like night and day. Shaves are effortless and always enjoyable...just wish it was possible to do a 30-50 pass shave....it's always over to quickly!