Thread: When is your Straight Razor Sharp

Originally Posted by kelbro

91% IPA. Kleenex. Sharpie gone.

- - - Just tried it . . . ie. blackened both edges with Sharpie, and a couple of passes on the 8000 stone. The black is gone.

- - - And then on to the leather. Still no shave.

Originally Posted by Barry2

- - - Just tried it . . . ie. blackened both edges with Sharpie, and a couple of passes on the 8000 stone. The black is gone.

- - - And then on to the leather. Still no shave.

Late to the conversation and did not follow the whole thread. That said, it is perfectly possible to remove all the black sharpie off the bevels and still not have a shaving edge. Done that too many times. I believe if that happens the bevels are not meeting, not set.

Bob

“Barry, you can take a sharpie and mark the edge on both sides. All the way down the blade. Do a stroke on each side and look at the bevel. Is all of the sharpie gone at the edge? If so, your bevels are meeting”

Not necessarily, you can be honing to the edge, (removing Ink) and still not have a fully set bevel. It is a good test to see how close you are, but not a definitive test, for a fully set bevel.

Removing ink in one stroke tells you, the bevels are flat, but not necessarily meeting.

This is where many new guys have an issue, they get close and move up in grit, but the bevel is not FULLY set. You are polishing bevels that don’t meet, there is no edge.

If you think it is set, but are not absolutely sure, lightly joint the edge with one stroke, look at the edge, straight down, do you see a white line?

Now re-set the bevel in about 10-15 laps with light pressure. Look at it, straight down on the edge. Once all of the white line is gone, the bevel is fully set.

Do not move up in grits until you are absolutely sure the bevel is fully set.

You can see a lot more with more magnification, 10-15 is good 60-100 is better. WD40 easily removes Sharpie ink, and if you use colored ink you can see it with the naked eye.

Sounds like the physical parts are lining up. Are you holding the strop taut? Not tight but not slack?

Considering all options here and as a control sample, have you shaved or been shaved with a straight before?

Originally Posted by Barry2

- - - Just tried it . . . ie. blackened both edges with Sharpie, and a couple of passes on the 8000 stone. The black is gone.

- - - And then on to the leather. Still no shave.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

“Barry, you can take a sharpie and mark the edge on both sides. All the way down the blade. Do a stroke on each side and look at the bevel. Is all of the sharpie gone at the edge? If so, your bevels are meeting”

Not necessarily, you can be honing to the edge, (removing Ink) and still not have a fully set bevel. It is a good test to see how close you are, but not a definitive test, for a fully set bevel.

Removing ink in one stroke tells you, the bevels are flat, but not necessarily meeting.

This is where many new guys have an issue, they get close and move up in grit, but the bevel is not FULLY set. You are polishing bevels that don’t meet, there is no edge.

If you think it is set, but are not absolutely sure, lightly joint the edge with one stroke, look at the edge, straight down, do you see a white line?

Now re-set the bevel in about 10-15 laps with light pressure. Look at it, straight down on the edge. Once all of the white line is gone, the bevel is fully set.

Do not move up in grits until you are absolutely sure the bevel is fully set.

You can see a lot more with more magnification, 10-15 is good 60-100 is better. WD40 easily removes Sharpie ink, and if you use colored ink you can see it with the naked eye.

- - - What do you mean "look at the edge straight down". That requires explanation.

- - - Also, what is the "white line". Why white ?

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree here. Physics / Geometry 101. There is either an apex or there is not. Granted, it may not be 100% complete down the entire edge though. Higher magnification and looking for the 'white line' can confirm or not but two or three sharpie tests will not lie. You may have thought that you removed all of the sharpie but you didn't if the bevel is not in fact set. Sharpie has to be dry. Stone should be dry.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

“Barry, you can take a sharpie and mark the edge on both sides. All the way down the blade. Do a stroke on each side and look at the bevel. Is all of the sharpie gone at the edge? If so, your bevels are meeting”

Not necessarily, you can be honing to the edge, (removing Ink) and still not have a fully set bevel. It is a good test to see how close you are, but not a definitive test, for a fully set bevel.

Removing ink in one stroke tells you, the bevels are flat, but not necessarily meeting.

This is where many new guys have an issue, they get close and move up in grit, but the bevel is not FULLY set. You are polishing bevels that don’t meet, there is no edge.

If you think it is set, but are not absolutely sure, lightly joint the edge with one stroke, look at the edge, straight down, do you see a white line?

Now re-set the bevel in about 10-15 laps with light pressure. Look at it, straight down on the edge. Once all of the white line is gone, the bevel is fully set.

Do not move up in grits until you are absolutely sure the bevel is fully set.

You can see a lot more with more magnification, 10-15 is good 60-100 is better. WD40 easily removes Sharpie ink, and if you use colored ink you can see it with the naked eye.

Originally Posted by kelbro

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree here. Physics 101. There is either an apex or there is not. Granted, it may not be 100% complete down the entire edge though. Higher magnification and looking for the 'white line' can confirm or not but two or three sharpie tests will not lie. You may have thought that you removed all of the sharpie but you didn't if the bevel is not in fact set. Sharpie has to be dry. Stone should be dry.

- - - So then, you disagree with Euclid. I can appreciate that the Sharpie will tell you whether you have a flat bevel. But whether they meet at an apex is another question and I have to agree with Euclid that the Sharpie cannot tell you whether they meet or not.

- - - With the naked eye, you simply cannot tell.

- - - By the way, acetone or lacquer thinner will remove Sharpies quicker and easier than WD40.

Yes. My point is that there either is or is not an apex. If the two planes do not meet, there will still be sharpie there. You may not be able to see it with the naked eye.

I do agree that the 'white line' or segments of a 'white line' is a very reliable indicator that you have not achieved 100% intersection of the two planes. I have very good vision and can see it with a 10x -15x but it is much more apparent with higher magnification.

Originally Posted by Barry2

- - - So then, you disagree with Euclid. I can appreciate that the Sharpie will tell you whether you have a flat bevel. But whether they meet at an apex is another question and I have to agree with Euclid that the Sharpie cannot tell you whether they meet or not.

- - - With the naked eye, you simply cannot tell.

- - - By the way, acetone or lacquer thinner will remove Sharpies quicker and easier than WD40.

And that is the point, be absolutely sure the bevel is set or you may find yourself polishing bevels that don’t meet, as Barry is.

Use more than one test, ink the bevels, do a quick hair test, at 3 places on the edge and look at the edge. If any test fail, the edge is not there.

Typically, I see guys do a hair test and it does not cut. What do they do next? They try again and then it cuts, so they call it good.

Or the ink the bevel and do one stroke and the ink does not come off completely, so they do another stroke and another and call it good.

Barry is probably close, but not there yet. Close does not count. Do multiple test and be absolutely sure the bevel is set, before you move up in grit.

Probably 95 percent of all the issues in the honing forum, are from a lack of a full bevel set…

Originally Posted by Euclid440

And that is the point, be absolutely sure the bevel is set or you may find yourself polishing bevels that don’t meet, as Barry is.

Use more than one test, ink the bevels, do a quick hair test, at 3 places on the edge and look at the edge. If any test fail, the edge is not there.

Typically, I see guys do a hair test and it does not cut. What do they do next? They try again and then it cuts, so they call it good.

Or the ink the bevel and do one stroke and the ink does not come off completely, so they do another stroke and another and call it good.

Barry is probably close, but not there yet. Close does not count. Do multiple test and be absolutely sure the bevel is set, before you move up in grit.

Probably 95 percent of all the issues in the honing forum, are from a lack of a full bevel set…

And we are in 100% agreement on that!